I hope you enjoyed Thursday’s holiday and have some good plans for Monday’s holiday as well. Remember that since Monday is a holiday, we do not have a discussion due Sunday night. Since Wednesday follows a Monday schedule, you’ll contribute to our online discussion by Tuesday night.
For this discussion, I want us to start thinking about our first formal assignment, Project #1. Read through the instructions and start brainstorming about what you might want to work on. Not sure yet? That’s fine, too. We haven’t finished reading all of the stories you might want to focus on. If you have questions, thoughts, or comments about the assignment, please use the commenting space on that page so we can read and reply to each other there. I am happy to revise the language of the assignment to make it clearer and more understandable.
Since a major aspect of this project is thinking about a story’s narrator and what affect the type of narrator has on the way we experience the story, let’s think about the narrator in “Young Goodman Brown” as well as the other stories we’ve read so far. If we look back at our list of different types of narrators, what do they offer us as readers as we enter and live in a given story world? Think about the definitions of the terms to help you understand what the narrator does and can’t do in a given story:
- first-person narrator
- second-person narrator
- third-person narrator
- third-person limited
- third-person omniscient
- third-person objective
I’d like us to add a few other terms to our list. They come from narratology, the study of narrative, and sound more technical than these other terms:
A narrative is heterodiegetic if the narrator is not a protagonist or if the narrator  exists in a different sphere than the protagonist. Third-person narratives are most commonly associated with this term, but other narratives can be, such as you-narratives, they-narratives, and one-narratives.
A homodiegetic narrative is equivalent to a first-person narrative. If the narrator is the main protagonist, such as in an autobiography, that is called an autodiegetic narrative. That style of narration is different from a peripheral first-person narrator, in which a first-person narrator is a minor character. First-person narrators, whether homodiegetic or autodiegetic, are inherently limited in their perspective and are potentially untrustworthy.
These definitions come from Monika Fludernikâs An Introduction to Narratology, 2009, and draw on the work of Gerard Genette and Franz K. Stanzel.
To make them a little clearer, here are the building blocks of those words: diegesis refers to the story world. Hetero- means different; homo- means same; auto- means self. Therefore, we have someone different than the story world telling a heterodiegetic narrative, someone in the same story world telling a homodiegetic narrative, and even more specific than that, we can say that when the narrator in the story world is the protagonist, or main character, we have an autodiegetic narrative.
Getting back to our discussion here, what kind of narrator do we find in “Young Goodman Brown,” and what effect does that have on our experience in reading the story? What other narrative styles have we encountered in the other stories we have read, and how did those affect our reading experiences?
In âYoung Goodman Brown,â by Nathaniel Hawthorne, the narration is given in third person omniscient point of view. In the 7th paragraph of the story, Iâm quite unsure of whatâs actually going on. It seems as if the quotations is what Goodman Brown is saying, but the narrator says âââPoor little Faith!â thought he, for his heart smote him.â Therefore, I assumed itâs actually what he was thinking. Also, the narrator supplies the reader with a detailed description of Goodman Brownâs dream. The narrator is telling the story, but also provides the thoughts and feelings of Goodman Brown, but itâs limited. Throughout the story, weâre being told whatâs happening to Goodman Brown, and in some parts weâre told what heâs feeling or thinking.
The effect that third person omniscient point of view has is that it enhances how the reader interprets the story. Weâre having the story being told to us from the view of someone who is not the protagonist, but they also give some of the thoughts and feelings of the protagonist. This allows readers to understand the story better.
I think the story is written in 3rd person sympathetic, although most of it written based on observations, and what the people said out loud (3rd person objective). The author has access to Mr. Brown’s thoughts in a few places. In chapter 46 “he looked up to the sky, doubting whether…”, and in chapter 8 he felt justified. When the narrator speaks of other people he uses visual and auditory cues to describe them, he doesn’t use their thoughts.
In chapter 7 where he “thought” “poor little Faith”, I believe he is actually thinking aloud (as the quotations seem to tell us).
Hi Professor,
I started looking at the post for Project #1 and I think that I understand the first part of the “retelling” is to pick a narration style other than the one in said story and change the narration from whichever point of view of our choosing which therefore may change the story, and we can creatively change the course of the story if we choose?
Part 2 is a smaller paper explaining our choice in narration that differs from the original and how our style tells the story in a different perspective and we must use terminology that we have learned to exhibit this.. and then all papers must be put in a sequence( anthology)?
For the revision bit of the project I know you want us to keep the characteristics of the characters but, as many fairy tale retellings do, can we add characters and change the whole story just keeping the main aspect of the original? For example making Emily Grierson a werewolf that kills people that pass by town and disposes of their bodies except Homer whom she kills and keeps in her bedroom (much like the original her father also dies, and her necrophiliac nature, as well as her being single, remains and is only revealed towards the end?)
For the project, you want us the pick one of the stories that we have read so far and retell it in a different narration style. For the project we can we retell either the entire story or a certain part of a long story in a different way. So can we add events that we though happen even though it was not told in the story? For example in “A Rose For Emily” I can pick the part where Homer goes to the bar and i would add details of what he did in the bar, who he talked to and it would lead up to the point of where he talks about his marriage with Emily.
I think the story is written in mixed of third person limited and omniscient. I find mostly is third person limited describing the thoughts, feelings and experience of Young Goodman Brown but then I saw the narrator describe the feelings and expression of some of the other characters like the narrator expressed Faith in paragraph 7 âas she spoke, there was trouble in her face, as if a dream had warned her what work is to be done to-nightâ. Also found in paragraph 13 description of elder traveler who had appointment with Goodman Brown as âhe had an indescribable air of one who knew the world, and would not have felt abashed at the governorâs dinner-table, or in King Williamâs court, were it possible that his affairs should call him thither.â Both third person limited and omniscient point of view gives the writer more freedom and directs the readerâs attention to the subject being presented in the story.
I think “Young Goodman Brown,” by Nathaniel Hawthorne, is in 3rd person. The narration is third person, but it also mentions a few of goodman brown’s thoughts, as well as him thinking out loud. “There may be a devilish Indian behind every tree, said Goodman Brown to himself.” I to have a confusion regarding weather the narrator is actually telling us Goodman Brown’s thoughts in paragraph 7, or Goodman Brown is just thinking out loud.
I believe the story âYoung Goodman Brownâ is being told in third person limited. The narrator is only describing Goodmanâs inner thoughts as well as his actions and only observes everyone else’s feelings and action based on what is presented in front of Goodman. With this perspective style, we get to experience in detail of Goodmanâs supposed journey through the forest. We view how he deals with his wife, Faith, fall into the arms of evil when he wanted to keep God in her life and evil away from her. This perspective also makes it difficult to tell if the forest meeting was real or it was just Goodman dreaming towards the end of the story. In the beginning of the story, Faith tells Goodman she has been having horrible dreams lately. Maybe this was Goodman’s inner thoughts referencing his own series of bad dreams of evil and witchcraft. If it were a dream, we see Goodman turn from a man of faith to a paranoid man that sees evil in everyone and is unable to trust anyone in his community, especially his wife. Another example of a story that used a specific narrative style to help convey a story is A Rose for Emily, which might of had a third-person omniscient perspective. This style allowed the readers to see what the community thought of Emily throughout her life, since she lived a pretty confidential life. Throughout the story, their assumptions about Emily changed based on what they saw or heard her do. For example, when they found out Emily purchased poison from the drugstore, they figured she was suicidal, but when she was seen buying male oriented items, they assumed she was marrying Homer and didnât question his disappearance after entering Emilyâs house for the last time. We then see how the townsmen and women discover what Emily was up to when they enter her house after her death.
I do believe the narrator is somewhat third person omniscient. This is because the narrator gives information from anywhere in the story. However, there is also third person limited as the narrator only expresses what is in the mind of the point -of -view character only, in this case Goodman Brown. A “Rose for Emily'” is told using first person narration. The narrator is a member of the town who is familiar with Miss Emily and the events surrounding her life.
I need some clarification as to whether a story can have two different narrative style.
The story âYoung Goodman Brownâ, the narrator is written in third person by using the words âheâ and âshe.â However, it seems as if the writing style was written around the 1800s.The effect that it may have on our experience in reading the story may give us an analytical way of thinking. In the story many terms were written differently of how we speak or write today. We would have to use our context clues to figure out the meaning of what the narrator was interpreting. For example,
“What a wretch am I to leave her on such an errand! She talks of dreams, too. Methought as she spoke there was trouble in her face, as if a dream had warned her what work is to be done tonight. But no, no; ‘t would kill her to think it. Well, she’s a blessed angel on earth; and after this one night I’ll cling to her skirts and follow her to heaven.â
In this statement, Goodman Brown feels guilty about leaving his wife behind to go run an errand that might not be godly wise. And he may have this gut feeling that his wife might know that something is wrong and something unpleasant will happen.
As other stories we have read were also not written in today English or writing skills. Therefore, we must find ways to clarify and understand the readerâs point of view of the story.
The story âYoung Goodman Brownâ, the narrator is written in third person by using the words âheâ and âshe.â However, it seems as if the writing style was written around the 1800s.The effect that it may have on our experience in reading the story may give us an analytical way of thinking. In the story many terms were written differently of how we speak or write today. We would have to use our context clues to figure out the meaning of what the narrator was interpreting. For example,
“What a wretch am I to leave her on such an errand! She talks of dreams, too. Methought as she spoke there was trouble in her face, as if a dream had warned her what work is to be done tonight. But no, no; ‘t would kill her to think it. Well, she’s a blessed angel on earth; and after this one night I’ll cling to her skirts and follow her to heaven.â
In this statement, Goodman Brown feels guilty about leaving his wife behind to go run an errand that might not be godly wise. And he may have this gut feeling that his wife might know that something is wrong and something unpleasant will happen.
As other stories we have read were also not written in today English or writing skills. Therefore, we must find ways to clarify and understand the readerâs point of view of the story.
I believe the story of Young Goodman Brown is being told in the third person with the narrator limited to certain characters because the narrator only told what was in the thoughts of Mr. Goodman Brown. For example, it states, âpoor little Faith!â thought he for his heart smote him [Goodman Brown]â (Page 1 p.7) and âbut, where is Faith?â thought Goodman Brown; and, as hope came into his heart, he trembledâ (Page 8 p.57).
Now, as for my experience with the story, I think that if it were told in the third person omniscient then I would have understood what was Mr. Brown thinking when he was walking in the forest with the devil or what the devil was scheming when he was pursuing Mr. Brown to leave his faith. In other stories we have read such as A Rose for Emily, I believe the story was being told in the third person objective. The narrator did not have any access to the thoughts of the characters but he only told the story through observation and in broken pieces. When I say broken pieces, I mean that the story should have been told in chronological order. I would have preferred if there was not any flashbacks done while being told another part of the story, this confused me.
I believe that the narration of the short story âYoung Goodman Brownâ by Nathaniel Hawthorne is third-person limited. In the story, we see the world through the eyes of Goodman Brown’s eyes. We experience how lost he is in the situation. We experience how upset he was when he loses his ‘Faith’. We are introduced to characters when Goodman Brown realizes who the people are on the road to the ritual.
This story was particularly interesting because we were just as lost as Goodman Brown was till the end of the story. He was confused with what was happening and why his wife was at the gathering. Making Goodman Brown the limited third person view we had access to made the story a real thriller and kept me on the edge of my chair.
I think for the retelling of the story for the project, it will be interesting to tell the story through Faith’s point of view because then, we may be able to understand the full story.
I totally agree the flashbacks makes things confusing. I had to go over certain part several times to try and get a clear picture.
I believe the story is written in third person due to the word usage “he” “she” and he what were the thoughts of Mr. Goodman Brown. In the story he states “poor little Faith! Thought he for his heart smite him (Goodman Brown) (p.7). Then “there may be a devilish Indian behind every tree, said Goodman Brown to himself”. This leads to a slight confusion weather. One is Goodman Brown speaking out loud? Two are these Goodman Brown’s thoughts?
I believe the story is written in third person due to the word usage “he” “she” and what were the thoughts of Mr. Goodman Brown. In the story he states “poor little Faith! Thought he for his heart smite him (Goodman Brown) (p.7). Then “there may be a devilish Indian behind every tree, said Goodman Brown to himself”. This leads to a slight confusion weather. One is Goodman Brown speaking out loud? Two are these Goodman Brown’s thoughts?
This story was so sad. The depiction of faith being his wife for a merely three months is somewhat hilarious. Goodman brown main focus was to keep Faith. His journey through the woods was to find Faith even though he supposedly left her at home. It seems as if Goodman brown was not always a good man after all; he was worried during his journey through the woods and he came across a few Christians that helped him to understand or believe the significance of Faith.
The story “Young Goodman Brown” was written in the third person point of view. In this story Young Goodman Brown, Goodman found him self struggling to make his way through this very ominous forest where his two friends led him. From his point of view, he felt as if there was something evil awaiting him at the end of this journey. Along the way he faced conflicts with himself on whether holy was actually holy and if it was only a blanket to cover the wicked. While completing his journey he found himself in a towns meeting where a mystical even was taking place that was beyond his comprehension. While the story progressed, the constant thought of his wife pierced through his immediate one to his consciousness. He was more interested in finding faith than finding the meeting. In my point of view, this was only a metaphor of the battle that was taking place inside. Goodman Brown was not trying to find his wife faith but his own with God. His faith was continually tested through out the story where he felt betray when the true nature of the people he respected was flipped. Upon the meeting he saw everyone for their true ways which shocked him because the nature these people presented so genuinely in public (daylight). It seemed as if Goodman Brown was the only one that stayed strong by his faith but it seemed faith ‘herself’ had betrayed him.