There are two parts to this discussion. You are graded on your participation in both parts. Please always remember to write your names and sections numbers in the posts.
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PART I: Due Tuesday February 13. I will monitor them and reveal these comments the next day.Â
Watch the Kurozuka clip. Take note of the sense of ma, that is, the interval between beats created by the drums, singers, stomping, and stillness. (Ma is discussed in the “Empire of Stillness” reading.) What might be the purpose of the slowing of time in the spinning scene? What emotion is expressed and how does the ma enhance that? Now watch the Throne of Blood clip, which references the Noh scene. In this scene, Macbeth and Banquo are returning from a victory on the battlefield and encounter a witch that gives a prophecy. Macbeth will be king and Banquo will be the father of kings. Kurosawa (the director) sets the play in feudal (Samurai) Japan, the same period in which Noh theatre was at its height. Why do you think Kurosawa used the Noh imagery from Kurozuka in his depiction of the scene?
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PART II: Due Thursday February 15Â
After the first responses are revealed, begin a conversation with a classmate who wrote something similar to your own response. The two (or three) of you should then get into a conversation (back-and-forth) developing this idea further. What other moments or aspects of the play or the movie–or Noh theatre in general–support your points?
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Kurozuka
The purpose for slowing down time us meant to represent two things. One, the slowing down of time could be ma and representing the stillness/emptiness of time. Second and more confident answer is that the slowing down of time is meant to represent the old lady’s/spirit thoughts. The lady exclaims “It’s so pitful spinning thread in the night just to get by” insinuating her feelings of time being slow while also being demonstrative.
Since the facial expressions of the performers are obscured due to the mask, they must use their body language to convey emotion. Not only that but ma, the emptiness of the theatre space, allows these movements to be much more readable from the audience.
Throne of Blood
Kurosawa definitely used Noh imagery for Kurozuka. The samurai that came up to the witch had a black background. As for the witch, they spun a wheel similar to spinning thread in Noh. The way the witch spun began slowly but overtime as the prophecy was being revealed they spun up the turning. Similar to Noh.
I think you make some pretty good points Jairo. I do think Ma is used to represent the stillness of time and to further demonstrate the lady’s feelings of pity upon herself. I think Ma also enhances the scene where right before she leaves the villagers in her house, you can focus on the precise movements where the spirit/lady is pulling her hands down from the mask. That moment feels extremely tense, sad, and like something bad is about to happen because of the audience seeing the actors movements, and feeling the ominous sounds coming from the chorus. The moment itself just feels so slow, but very attention grabbing as an audience member.
Excellent work, Jairo. Just one comment — I didn’t ask if Kurosawa was using Noh imagery, I was asking why.
The purpose of slowing time in the “spinning” scene is to instill and symbolize loneliness and for the audience to feel the “True feelings” of the woman. “This life tortures the soul”. You can feel how utterly miserable she is. Through Ma, it helps achieve this through the simplicity and architecture of the stage. The Kagami-Ita allows for boosted acoustics. The stomping of the stage and beat intervals allow you to feel tension which allows for this slowing of time.
I believe Kurosawa used the Noh Imagery from Kurozuka in order to create the same tension in this scene. This scene in Macbeth in particular is supposed to feel very mysterious and tense and I think Kurosawa creates a presence of uneasiness with the witch spinning the thread and singing in the empty hut/shed. I also believe the spinning the thread also symbolizes the witch spinning the threads of fate. It’s very interesting imagery and foreshadowing as the spinning thread usually means something tragic will happen.
Great work, Chris. I particularly appreciate your point about spinning and fate.
The purpose of the slowing down time during the spinning of the thread is to intensify the moment of the scene by creating a sense of doom. As the threads also symbolized the strings of fate in Japanese culture which outcome is usually of someone’s fated demise in this case. Ma is supposed to enhance it by letting the audience depict or imagine the possibilities of his fated outcome by the scenery and music. I think Kurosawa used Noh imagery from Kurosawa because he wanted to use the actors’ slow, deliberate movements and dramatic silences to highlight the tension and intensity of the unfolding tragedy.
Great work, Gordon. I would have hoped you engaged with the concept of “ma” more directly and explicitly.
The purpose of slowing the time during the spinning scene is to show that the spinning takes a great amount of time without having to actually spin from day to night in reality. The lyrics narrate the scene saying that the woman is having to spin the thread into the night, and to show the lengthy process of spinning the thread the actor slows down their movements to make the slowness of the activity more clear to the audience. The emotions expressed are like an unending sadness and feeling of futility to go against the continuous cycle of time and life. The Ma enhances that through the moments of silence in between having both the actor and the audience feel the time and emptiness that the character feels.
I believe that Kurosawa used Noh imagery from Kurozuka because the setting of feudal Japan was when Noh theater was at its height, and referencing the artform that was prominent during that period reinforces the setting. Noh theatre also deals with the supernatural interacting with the human world often, and the interaction between the witch and Macbeth is reminiscent of how spirits and humans might interact in Noh theatre pieces.
I agree with your point about the play or the movie. Especially your explanation of slow time and the actual rotation from day to night in the theater scene. In which you also explain the constant rotation of time and life.
Your explanation that Kurosawa use of Kurozuka images was very well done, especially also mentioning the background of feudal Japan, as this section plays a very important role in the movie, and without the use of the background of feudal Japan, it would be difficult to show the interaction between souls and humans.
Excellent work, Tsu. I especially appreciate how you included the plot of the play into your response.
Aaron Acosta THE22801 (276)
The Noh telling of Kurozuka is about a mound in which a weary traveler is seeking refuge in an old lady’s home. Who turnes out to be an evil demon in disguise. This malicious entity can be sensed during the yarn scene. As if something ghastly is unwinding and the slow winding of the thread just intensifies this eerie presence that will lead to a series of unfortunate and appalling future
Yes, Aaron. I agree with your response to the first part. You forgot to write about Throne of Blood.
jianwei shi
In Kurozuka’s clips, the purpose of slowing down time in the spinning scenes is to keep the actors focused and ready to do whatever comes next. The emotion they are trying to convey is to tap into the archetypal gestures of the character they are playing, because the goal for a Noh actor is not to mimic the specific form of Noh, but to find a strong sense of physicality and inner energy, and a willingness to find freedom within the strict constraints of the gestural vocabulary. This emotion is reinforced by the use of Ma during the performance, as Ma represents in the meaning of the performance a space, a pause, an interval or a gap that can be filled and refined by the imagination of the viewer. I think the reason why Kurosawa used the imagery of the Kurozuka theater to depict this scene is because it is better able to show the weakness of human nature and the process of falling into temptation. In the movie, Kurosawa does not show a brutal killing scene, but allows the audience to give full play to their imagination, so that the audience can understand that the ascetic monk who strictly follows the precepts cannot suppress his curiosity, and for the audience who sees the gruesome scene, the scene symbolizes the emptiness of the human ego, which may drive people to kill each other.
Lovely work, Johnwei. Your point about the actor’s concentration is excellent, as well as the archetypal aspect enhanced by the slowness.
Ma is used in Noh Theater as a term for negative space or a pause. This can be seen by performers of Noh theater using a loud stomp followed by a moment of silence. From this creates a sharp tension that influences an audience’s imagination.
In the clip of Kurozuka, a Noh performer portraying an elderly woman is seen spinning thread in a slow, rhythmic pace. From this scene, I get the sense of eternity. The scene can be seen as a way to mesmerize the audience into the feeling that she has been spinning for a very long time. Further slow hand movements by the performer enhances the Ma even more.
In Throne of blood there is a similar scene where an old man is spinning a wheel. The scene has the same slow, rhythmic spinning giving the viewer a sense of infiniteness. Both scenes uses Ma to express the mysteriousness of its character and it succeeds in starting both stories at a specific tempo.
Great work, Andrew. Eternity — yes! I don’t see an “Andrew” on the roster. Is this the name that will appear on your records and Blackboard?
Hi Professor,
My name is Chi Chan on the roster but I go by Andrew.
In the Kurozuka clip, the use of ma is emphasizing the slow passage of time the woman feels as she lives alone. But I also see it as the woman’s patience in waiting for her next prey to arrive. For the Throne of blood clip, the use of Kurozuka imagery connects the past tale with the present. The old woman is a spirit who can foretell the future of the general and can also be the cultural link to the movies setting instead of being a direct retelling of Macbeth.
Good work, Steph.
I’m sorry, Brian. I don’t understand.
In the structure of “ma,” the interval between beats, movements, and stillness, the slowing of time in Kurozuka’s spinning scene could produce a sense of suspense and expectation. Elongating the temporal characteristics of the scenario may increase the emotional impact on the audience. The slowing down of time may produce feelings of thoughtfulness or discomfort, heightening the emotional intensity of the event. The strategic use of ma in this spinning scene may heighten the emotional intensity, keeping the audience engaged with the events as they develop.
Regarding Throne of Blood’s usage of Noh images, Kurosawa’s decision to put the play in feudal Japan during the height of Noh theatre may have been an intentional attempt to incorporate cultural and historical themes into his translation of Macbeth. Noh theatre is distinguished by its methodical pace, stylized motions, and symbolic imagery. Incorporating Noh motifs into Throne of Blood may allow Kurosawa to add a layer of cultural complexity and authenticity to his film. The Noh-inspired moments may also enhance the film’s overall aesthetic and thematic relevance, bringing it closer to the traditional Japanese cultural background.
Nice work, Ibrahim.
Jeremy Perricone | D276
The purpose of the slowing of time in the spinning scene could be to exaggerate the feeling of boredom and mundaneness. The old women says that it’s pitiful to spin thread just to get by, clearly dissatisfied and bored with her life, and slowing the ma enhances that feeling by giving the illusion that time is passing slower.
I think Kurosawa used Noh imagery in Throne of Blood to pay homage to the art, and to show the belief system of that time, that the idea of supernatural spirits were present.
Good work, Jeremy.
The purpose of the slowing of time in the spinning scene is to show that time and space is not linear and in noh time moves freely.
In Throne of Blood, Kurosawa uses key elements of Noh for Throne of Blood to communicate the main concepts of the movie (ambition, guilt, fate, destruction). But I believe Kurosawa uses the Noh imagery from Kurozuka in order to recreate and pay homage to the Noh theatre experience and Japanese culture. It also intertwines english and Japanese culture. Some of the many (noh) elements that are used include masks, chanting, choreography, music and set design.
Nice job, Sage. Kurosawa could have used any number of cultural elements from Japanese history — why do you think he references this scene, specifically?
I think he use the Noh theme by asking if he was from the spirit world. They use the spinning the wheel was like him walking the Hashigakari bridge. After he answered their question, he just vanished into thin air.
From Jun W:
2. In both “Kurozuka” and “Throne of Blood,” the emotion expressed in the spinning scene is likely fear or terror. The spinning creates a disorienting and chaotic atmosphere, heightening the sense of dread and uncertainty experienced by the characters and, by extension, the audience. The use of ma, or negative space, enhances this emotion by creating moments of tension and anticipation during the pauses between spins.
3. Using Noh imagery in “Kurozuka,” Kurosawa was able to infuse his film with elements of Japanese culture, symbolism, visual beauty, and emotional depth, creating a cinematic experience that is both culturally rich and emotionally resonant.
Nice response, Jun. The last answer is very vague, however. Why is cultural richness important in the story of Macbeth? I don’t see your name on my roster. Please let me know if this is the name that should appear on Blackboard.
Slowing down time in the spinning scene may serve to amplify the sense of tedium and routine. The elderly woman expresses her discontent with the monotonous task of spinning thread merely to make ends meet, emphasizing her dissatisfaction and boredom with life. By slowing down the pace of the scene, intensifies this feeling, creating the illusion of time dragging on, further emphasizing the mundane nature of her reality.
In Throne of Blood, Kurosawa cleverly uses Noh imagery by setting the story in feudal Japan, when Noh theater was all the rage. This adds a cool cultural twist to his take on Macbeth. Noh theater is known for its slow pace and symbolic stuff, so by throwing some of that in, Kurosawa makes his movie feel more real and deep. He also borrows from Kurozuka to amp up the tension, like when the witch is spinning thread in the empty hut. It gives off this creepy vibe and hints at bad stuff about to go down. So basically, Kurosawa mixes in these cool cultural elements to make his movie way more interesting and intense.
All graded