Post first response: before class 2/6
Post discussion posts before class 2/8
This post requires two responses. First, respond to the four questions below. Replies to the post are moderated. I will read and release them for group discussion on 2/6, which is the deadline for submitting your response to the four questions below. Once released, respond to a post written by one of your classmates (see below). Responses and discussions are due on 2/8.Ā Write your name and section number on the top of your written reply.Ā
FIRST RESPONSE (2/6): As you learned from the reading and videos from the last two weeks, Ancient Greek theatre has roots in the religious rituals of that society. The questions below are about the relationship between religious ritual and theatre. Answer all of the questions.Ā
- Locate the quote by Mircea Eliade in the āCrash Course, Intro to Theatreā video (week 1). In your own words, describe Eliadeās definition of ritual.Ā
- According to Weinstein (week one reading), how does amphitheater architecture contribute to the sense of ritual time (the past being made present)?Ā Ā
- Watch the taped stage production of āAntigoneā in Digital Theatre +.Ā What is the previous time that the character Antigone is trying to make āpresentā in the play āAntigoneā? In other words, what action does she want to take and who will be made āpresentā for the other characters in the play?
- As you can see from the BBC production of āAntigoneā, it is not staged on an outdoor amphitheater, but rather in a proscenium style, indoor theatre. The size of the audience for the BBC production was surely smaller than the Ancient Greek performance in an amphitheater and in a proscenium arrangement there would be less awareness of other audience members. While watching the play, think about how the staging would need to change in an outdoor space in front of 4,000 spectators. Choose one scene that you believe would have greater impact if staged in an outdoor amphitheater, specifically in terms of helping the audience feel that the events of Antigone are āmade presentā (that the audience is watching the original mythological event — think about what Weinstein wrote about the effect of performances in the amphitheater). When citing the scene, add the hour/minute mark on the video so that it can easily be referenced.Ā
DISCUSSION RESPONSE (2/8): Respond to one of your classmateās responses that you do not agree with. Argue that the scene they chose might work better on a modern, proscenium type stage than in an amphitheater. Explain why.
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I disagree with this statement because, amphitheater architecture is supposed to connect landscape and the audience. Although the scene is very poignant, and I do agree is a fine scene as you feel the redemption knowing Creon has to live with his unjust radical nature. The lighting and ornamentation actually makes the scene far more eerie as the point of view (the camera) slowly pans out. The amphitheater has many points of view. So In my opinion I feel like modern cinematographic elements fit this scene.
Hi Chris,
Unfortunately I have to disagree with the scene you chose. The scene you described where Creon is sitting in his chair alone would certainly do better on a Proscenium arragements because lights. In order to get the full effect of a depressing emotion, and for him to truly feel lonely, wouldn’t it better if he was on a pitch black stage with a spot light only on him? not only will the audience be immersed in darkness (figuratively as well) but in an open environment with sunlight, nature, birds chirping, it would certainly take away the melancholic effect that the scene is supposed to do.
I would argue the scene where the king is sitting alone in a state of regret and rue is better suited indoors. The symbolism of locking yourself away from the world creates a sense of depression and isolation that the audience can sense. Usually, when someone is unhappy they lock themselves away from the world and dwell on their sadness. They are too depressed to go outside and potentially have to interact with others- assuring they are alone.
I believe that the final scene with Creon would be better suited for a proscenium theater rather than a amphitheater. You bring up how rain could amplify the loneliness and despair that Creon is feeling in this scene; while there is a possibility that it rains, there is no way to control the weather to fit the scene when staging outdoors. However, with a proscenium theater it allows for the director to control the enviornment around the actor completely which would make for a more consistently impactful experience rather than an amphitheater.
I would argue and say that the final scene of Creon sitting in his chair would have worked better in a modern type of a stage. The spotlight on Creon brings the audienceĀ“s attention to him and the lighting amplifies the scene of him now being alone and having to bare the weight of the deaths he caused. The audience can also view that scene as a form of symbolism, him being surrounded by darkness, his guilt.
I disagree with this person’s perspective on which scene would have a greater impact if staged in an outdoor amphitheater. I believe the scene this person chose is okay inside because it shows the king’s return to his castle with his son’s dead body. This scene is more of a private scene and it is shown in the best possible fashion. The king returning to his castle in his own privacy to express his grief is normal. He is venting to his friends about his journey and his sorrow over his son. As a king, he can’t express these emotions in public. This is a more private matter or scene. I believe the best scenes to play in an amphitheater is the execution of Antigone or when Antigone was speaking with the king and men about her punishment. Her attempts to convince them that she’s doing what is right was unconvincing in this scene. An amphitheater could have had a greater impact on the audience.
Excellent work, Chris. I can see Creon sitting in the middle of the amphitheater alone — very striking image. You didn’t quite explain what Antigone is trying to make “present”.
Gordon Zheng THE2280ID
Great work, Gordon. Yes, I agree that the impact of a public burial would be much more effective outdoors.
1. Eliade’s definition of ritual is usually a way of mediating between the human and the supernatural. Rituals are sacred, plays are usually secular, and they can be used to enact or reenact major events – births, marriages, deaths, harvests – in either the human or supernatural world.
2. According to Weinstein, the architectural design of the amphitheater was intended to promote a sense of temporal ritual through body language, facial gestures, and vocal tones.
3. In the play Antigone, what Antigone wants to “present” is to admit and correct her mistakes. In other words, she wants to rule the world like Anti. I think that the “present” of the other characters in the play may just be Creon’s memories.
4. The production of Antigone from the BBC was staged in the front theater of an indoor theater. This is in contrast to the ancient Greek amphitheater performances, which had their own characteristics, as the smaller space of the indoor theater allowed for better concentration on the performance. In the open-air theater they had to use an oval-shaped stage to let the sound spread to the audience’s ears better. And the actors also need to have a better performance and rap to attract the main attention, otherwise it is easy to be attracted by other things away from the eyes.
Hi Johnwei,
I agree with your definition of ritual while providing examples! Very insightful!
Jairo — your responses to your peers should provide reasoning, examples, and more careful thought.
John,
I don’t understand this: “In the play Antigone, what Antigone wants to āpresentā is to admit and correct her mistakes. In other words, she wants to rule the world like Anti.” She doesn’t want to rule the world. And who is “Anti”?
Your description of the Weinstein article could be more fleshed out. Otherwise, nice work.
1. Rituals serve as a median between natural and the supernatural world. According to the video, religion was created for humans to try to explain and rationalize the world around them. Often times, a higher power was believed to be a source of provision and ancient civilizations believed that gods were always around them. Rituals were often used as an reenactment of supernatural worlds in present time.
2. Since rituals were seen as the original theater of ancient civilizations. Amphitheater Architecture is important to the audience because it creates an intimate arrangement of space that is meant be immersive. Weinstein states:
āThe continuity between the environment as image and context for the action, and that which envelops us as audience members, assists in bridging between the time and space of theatre and life.ā
The spatial arrangement can be seen as a symbolic understanding of time. Different focal points and acoustics of amphitheater can heighten presence and immediacy during performances.
3. In the production āAntigoneā the main character Antigone is trying to make the past āpresentā by burying her brother Polyneices. Although her brother was declared a traitor by the King, she wishes to defy the king and is in some sense, performing a ritual. Since rituals can be seen as a way of commemorating the past by turning it present.
4. A scene that stands out to me would be when the pall bearers bring out the dead brother. At the start of 1:42:08, upon the slow walk of the pallbearers, you can feel the tension especially with the king walking along with the brotherās dead body. Traditionally, since funerals are outdoor in the cemetery, seeing the pallbearers carrying the casket of your friend or family creates a heavy feeling in your heart. In my opinion, if this were to take place in an outdoor amphitheater, the audience can really take into consideration that they are witnessing a real funeral. Especially since the brother was deemed a traitor by the king, yet he wishes to kneel and cry before the brother. Especially when he grabs the dead body, most people would feel uncomfortable at such a sight.
Apologies for the confusion. For question 4. I meant Harmon, the son of Creon not the brother of Antigone.
Great work, overall Chi! You found the key sentence for understanding Weinstein’s point, and your argument for staging the funeral outdoors is convincing.
1.Ritual is a reenactment of a past event or story for the purpose of commemorating said event.
2.The amphitheater architecture is in an outdoor space where the audience and performers are exposed to the natural environment. The performers and audience share the sensory experience of the moment together through both being exposed to the natural elements which binds the two experiences together; thereby letting the audience immerse themselves in the ritual that is being enacted by the performers.
3.The previous time Antigone is trying to make the burial of her brother Polyneices. Her brother Polyneicesās presence will be made present in the play for the other characters through her giving him the proper burial she believe he deserved while Eteocles got his proper and honorable burial.
4.I think that the scene where Antigone is first brought in front of Creon would have a greater impact if staged in an outdoor amphitheater. (29:26 in the recording) If I was directing this scene on a outdoor amphitheater I would have Creon stand atop the skene and have Antigone brought onto the middle of the orchestra by the guards. By placing Creon atop the skene it evokes the image of a court scene, with Creon being the judge and Antigone being the defendant which can help to make the audience feel the impact of the scene more strongly than if staged in a traditional proscenium theater. The image of a court is also amplified by the audience itself being situated around the interrogation between Creon and Antigone like a court jury which further immerses the audience into the scene making it feel even more present.
I think you make some solid points here, Tsu. I think placing Creon on top of skene would provide a very exciting and intimidating scene, however, I think you could make a very similar argument that it would have the same effect if not better in a proscenium. In a proscenium, the picture frame would allow for an actual background of a courtroom and the addition of props that fit perfectly with the background. This would add to the illusion that it is an actual court room. This is something I don’t believe an amphitheater does as well due to it’s limitations being strictly outdoors. I believe Creon walking down the stairs already had a judge, jury, and executioner feel to it in the original scene, but in proscenium, it would be so much more immersive with a proper background and chorus in actual jury seats. I think it evokes a very menacing scene, and this would allow the audience to get lost in the illusion, more so than an amphitheater.
Great work, Tsu! Particularly how you carefully stage the scene on the skene and orchestra.
Ritual is the reenactment of a myth.
The amphitheaters exposure to the elements like weather, daylight, temperature adds to the sense of ritual time. The performance is connected to the surrounding environment and thus the performers seem to be connected as well.
Antigone in the play and in the BBC production are almost identical. They both bury Polyneices and both hang themselves. Unfortunately, I don’t see any difference.
I would choose the scene between Antigone and Ismene. Ismeme distraught towards Antigone would with how both characters are feeling at the moment. It shows Antigone’s true feelings and how she accepts her fate. While Ismene refuses to allow it. The raw emotion would go so well with the environment and outside elements having a play in the scene.
I disagree with the scene you picked where ismene and antigone share their true feelings on their brother’s burial. I believe on a proscenium stage, the audience’s attention can be more easily focused on the central conflict between Ismene and Antigone. The proscenium arch frames would have portrayed the action better, since there is no other distraction like the outdoor environment or your neighbors. This allows for a clear delineation between the stage and the audience, which can enhance the raw emotion of the scene plus the help of stage lighting and sound effects to highlight the character for more immersive impact compared to it on an amphitheater.
Jairo: The question about presence is not about the difference between the written play and the production filmed by the BBC. Ritual is meant to make something from the past “present” again. I was asking what Antigone (the character) is trying to make present in the play.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1aIToVJs0-s2u6JkPfTyibNowlGhXB6CT08DhjAyi3_I/mobilebasic
Great work, Brandon. I think you could have addressed the concept of “presence” a little more directly in the third question.
1.Mircea Eliade describes ritual as a presentation or display of a reenactment. In theater, this can be for reasons of entertainment purposes.
2. Amphitheater architecture consists of a stage and audience and this contributes to the sense of ritual time because a ritual is designed to create engagement, and show significance. However, rituals arenāt done alone, and with the contribution of amphitheater architecture, you can have an audience and other people (actors, playwrights, etc.) to contribute to the ritual. Weinstein states āArchitects always dream and speculate about the life that will animate their designsā- However, a performance/ritual is a perfect form to animate their designs.
3. Antigone wants to bury Polyneice’s body (her brother) illegally. The other characters in the play that become present are her deceased brothers Polyneices and Eteocles.
4. The scene that would have a greater impact if staged outdoors is Antigoneās execution (13:00-16:00), executions were often public and outdoors during this time. Creon described how he would kill Antigone āIāll take her to a path no people useā¦) would have been impactful if staged outdoors. The burial of Antigone’s brother would have also left an impact on the audience staged outdoors.
Ashley — I don’t remember that quote from the reading. Did you do the Weinstein reading? In the third question, I was hoping you’d take on the question of “presence” more directly.
Hello Edison, for argument sake, I’d have to disagree with your response with question 4, because showing someone’s death was not portrayed in the play, so I think perhaps it would affect the audience the same way in both settings, because it happened off stage.
Modern Curtain Call works better on stage than in an amphitheater because it allows you to focus better and experience the feelings of the characters on stage. Staging The Death of Antigone in an amphitheater can certainly have an unexpected effect, but it can also make it easy to be distracted by other things and not be able to concentrate on the performance.
I feel that that scene will work much more better in a modern, proscenium type of stage because everyone can react to it together as an audience rather than just everyone focusing on themselves. They will feel that they are much more focused on what’s really going on in that stage.
Edison: your responses need more fleshing out. You don’t really explain what it is about amphitheater design that lends itself to that scene (question 4). You don’t discuss “presence” in question 3. The definition of ritual is one definition, but it’s not the one discussed in the video. And in the second question, what was it specifically about amphitheater design that helped audiences feel immersed?
Aaron Acosta THE2280ID
Aaron. Good work overall. But I don’t understand your point about “soil” in the last question. Also, the definition of ritual is not from the video.
Sarah Elnaggar ā- D276
Question 1:
Eliadeās definition of ritual is āThe time of the event that the ritual commemorates or reenacts is made present.ā In my own words I would describe this as, Old scripts performed in present time to demonstrate old ideas or beliefs.
Question 2:
According to Weinstein, amphitheater architecture contributes to the sense of ritual time because amphitheaters are usually outdoors. He believes that due to outdoor environmental conditions such as, wind, rain, daylight, night darkness, heat of the day, or cool of the night, contributes to the experience of the performance. The connection of environment and the action taking place on stage, bridges the audience to a time and space of the theater and life. Also, Weinstein talks about the scale of an amphitheater and how the physical scale of the audience and the scale of the stage contributes to the aura as well.
Question 3:
In the play Antigone, the character Antigone is trying to bring honor to her family, by holding a proper burial for her brother despite the kingās orders. Antigone is following a higher law of God, which she believes holds more weight than the Kingās laws. I believe the King is made āpresentā for the other characters in the play because of his own pride he allowed himself to be empty and not remember the moral code of life. For treating people unfairly, the greater God punished him by taking his son and wife on the same night. His unlawful actions towards Antigone and her brother, the pain that he inflicted in Antigoneās heart over her brother, the immoral sentence he gave Antigone, and being completely insensitive during the hearing. All his actions lead him to his own anguish. Timestamp for the scene (01:02:00).
Sarah Elnaggar ā- D276
Question 1:
Eliadeās definition of ritual is āThe time of the event that the ritual commemorates or reenacts is made present.ā In my own words I would describe this as, Old scripts performed in present time to demonstrate old ideas or beliefs.
Question 2:
According to Weinstein, amphitheater architecture contributes to the sense of ritual time because amphitheaters are usually outdoors. He believes that due to outdoor environmental conditions such as, wind, rain, daylight, night darkness, heat of the day, or cool of the night, contributes to the experience of the performance. The connection of environment and the action taking place on stage, bridges the audience to a time and space of the theater and life. Also, Weinstein talks about the scale of an amphitheater and how the physical scale of the audience and the scale of the stage contributes to the aura as well.
Question 3:
In the play Antigone, the character Antigone is trying to bring honor to her family, by holding a proper burial for her brother despite the kingās orders. Antigone is following a higher law of God, which she believes holds more weight than the Kingās laws. I believe the King is made āpresentā for the other characters in the play because of his own pride he allowed himself to be empty and not remember the moral code of life. For treating people unfairly, the greater God punished him by taking his son and wife on the same night. His unlawful actions towards Antigone and her brother, the pain that he inflicted in Antigoneās heart over her brother, the immoral sentence he gave Antigone, and being completely insensitive during the hearing. All his actions lead him to his own anguish.
Question 4:
The scene that I believe needs an outdoor atmosphere like an amphitheater is when Antigone was talking to the king and the men. I feel like that scene was a little unconvincing and could have been greater in an outdoor amphitheater. If it was staged in an amphitheater during a cool breezy night, the cold breeze could have helped Antigone convey the message of her agony. Timestamp for the scene (01:02:00).
All graded