2. 6/4 (due 6/8)

45 thoughts on “2. 6/4 (due 6/8)”

1. 1. In “The Republic” by Plato, Plato’s views of art are negative. In his point of view, he sees art as a form of imitation like in mirrors when you see another view of yourself. In the text it says, “..if you wish, there are surely many couches and tables…But as for ideas for these furnishings, there are presumably two, one of couch, and one of table… Aren’t we also accustomed to say that it is in looking to the idea of each implement that one craftsman makes the couches and another the chairs we use, and similarly for other things?..But I suppose you’ll say that he doesn’t truly make what he makes. And yet in a certain way the painter too does make a couch, doesn’t he?” What he means by this, is that a couch is being used as an idea, and a craftsmen who establishes this idea uses his skills and creates an actual physical couch. Now if someone were to paint that couch, then it would no longer be a big idea as it had already been taken previously and the painter does not see it as an idea but only focuses on its’ appearance. In the text he states, “..imitation is far from the truth..if he is a good painter, by painting a carpenter and displaying him from far off, he would deceive children and foolish human beings into thinking that it is truly a carpenter.” To summarize, Plato believes that art is a form of imitation which is a lie and covers the real truth from the world. He explains this by using an artist who paints a carpenter in his eyes. To Plato, it is not a carpenter because the artist just paints what he sees and does not care or understand about how or what the carpenter actually does in his job.

   2. Beyonce’s work mainly focuses on sex. The idea is that it sexualizes the female body and the attention you receive for it, as well as the action. In the beginning of the song you can hear Beyonce say, “Lemme hear you say “Hey Ms. Carter” “. In Beyonce’s work it also says, “Driver roll up the partition please…He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown”. This refers to the action between Beyonce and her husband. Now, referring to the lyric where she mentioned Monica Lewinsky, if you have not heard there was a scandal back in 1998 when a White House intern named Monica Lewinski and former president Bill Clinton had an affair. However, this would seem to be an insult to conservatives as it does not follow traditional values.

   3-A. Bell Hooks’ views are more concerned towards Beyonce’s “innocent” look. She believes that Beyonce is a ‘slave’ to her image, and that she represents herself as a victim to sexualization of women.

   3-B. Quote: ”I see a part of Beyonce that is in fact anti-feminist, that is assaulting- that is a terrorist…I actually feel like the major assault on feminism in our society has come from visual media, from television and videos.”
   4-A. O’Reilly’s view on Beyonce’s work is negative because he feels it threatens the youth and would cause young girls to be inspired by the song and have unwanted pregnancies.

   4-B. Quote: “Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies, which we will deal with in a moment, not with you, but in another segment, and fractured families, why Beyonce do that?….I believe in—I believe in entertainment and an entertainer like Beyonce and a mogul like you have an obligation to protect children, not put out exploitive garbage that you know harms impressionable children.”

   5-A. Opposed to O’Reilly, Simmons’ views on Beyonce’s work is more positive. He believes that Beyonce’s work is art as sex is a natural thing for a human to do; and that it is natural for Beyonce as an artist to make music based off of something that inspired her from a natural activity.

   5-B. Quote: “I think the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell— to say things that people are inspired by…And so when an artist expresses something that’s sexual in music it is a reflection of our reality.”

   6-A. Berlatsky’s views are the same as Hooks, and O’Reilly. He explains that Beyonce makes herself look as an innocent young woman who is weak and easy to mistreat. In other words, to him she only shows vulnerability, and not power opposed to what the song is about, “power”. He adds on by explaining that it is difficult to consider Beyonce an art as you only see her body, etc..

   6-B. Quote: “…Beyonce is presented as child-like and vulnerable in a way that fits with images of black women as disempowered, available for men, and abused…There does seem, then, to be some difficulty in thinking of Beyonce as an artist making art while at the same time thinking of her as a body, to adorn videos, or magazine covers, or someone’s argument.”

   Reply

   1. Kelly,
      Really great work quoting and discussing Plato’s thoughts on the imitative aspect of art and how art can often seem preoccupied with the “appearance” of a thing rather than the “truth” or “idea” of the thing. Can you respond to this a bit more, though? For instance, a starting point would be to say: just as a carpenter uses the “idea” of a couch to build one, does a painter not also necessarily use his/her/their own “idea” of a couch so as to paint it? Plato (embodied by Socrates in the Dialogue) doesn’t seem to address this… I guess it occurs to me that perhaps it’s impossible for there to be the “appearance” of a thing without also there being an “idea” of it that is generated… But what do you think?

      Nice start on Beyonce: can you connect your first quotation back to the idea you set out with——that her work “focuses on sex”?

      Legit work on O’Reilly and Hooks. Careful with Berlatsky, though. I think he’s saying something quite different. (See my comments above.)

      Reply

2. 1. Plato thinks that the imitative aspect of art is bad because it lacks the creativeness and understanding that he believes an original piece of art should project. By acting in an imitative nature, an artist does not understand that which he creates. For copying requires no knowledge or true understanding. One who imitates is a fool, themselves, who knows not what he does not know. The true experts of a certain artistic field will be able to tell this, and only fools will enjoy the unoriginal art of an imitator. Plato believes that those who imitate know nothing about what they preach, and he believes that art should serve to tell us something new, something that we don’t already understand.

   2. Beyoncé’s work appears to be an interpretation of her own experience, particularly as they relate to her relationships and her experiences as a black woman in America. People are often critical of Beyoncé’s work because her work often reflect her opinions and political views as they relate to things like feminism and race, but she also creates music, which reflects the different aspects of her relationships relating from things like sex and passion all the way to abuse of power and vulnerability.

   3. 3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society): Hooks shares a similar view to O’Reilly, but at the same time it is entirely different. Hooks agrees that Beyoncé’s almost-nude image on the cover of TIME is bad for those who look up to her most, minority women of color in this country, but her reasoning is different. She believes that art is best when it is empowering, and she argues that Beyoncé falls into the same stereotype that women of color are to be submissive and seen in a sexual manner by posing in a semi-nude image. She views this as the wrong message to be sending, and would rather Beyoncé be sending a message fighting the stereotype.

   3b (Quotation from Hooks): “I see a part of Beyoncé that is, in fact, anti-feminist, that is–A terrorist–especially in terms of the impact on young girls.”

   4. 4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):O’Reilly’s interpretation is that because Beyoncé has a history of producing art that resonates with minority girls in America, she serves as a role model for those very same individuals. He seems to accept this, but he questions some of Beyoncé’s actions like bringing sex into the forefront of her art. Knowing that minority girls in America have higher incidences of teenage pregnancies, and that is the demographic of her primary followers, he implies that Beyoncé’s use of sex in her art will only cause the teenage pregnancy problem to get worse. O’Reilly comes from a conservative perspective, a perspective largely based on family values, and he believes that art should be wholesome and project moral ideals.

   4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): “Teenage girls look up to Beyoncé, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…why would Beyoncé do that?”

   5. 5a Simmons Quote: “I think the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell – to say things that people are inspired by…”

   5b Simmons interpretation: Simmons believes that the role of an artist is to express the truth, reality, if you will. He believes that Beyoncé including sex in her lyrics and in her picture on the cover of TIME magazine is an accurate depiction of reality because sex is so prevalent in our minds and in society.

   6. 6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument): Berlatsky’s argument is that art can be whatever the artist wants it to be, and it can have a pointed message, regardless of the way it is presented. He thinks that it is a shame that O’Reilly and Hooks limit their view of Beyoncé’s work to an image or a video, or lyrics, and do not recognize the artistic nature of her work.

   6b (Quotation from Berlatsky): “There does seem then, to be some difficulty in thinking of Beyoncé as an artist making art, while at the same time thinking of her as a body…”

   Reply

   1. Crispin,
      Legit thoughts on Plato. My only follow up: where is he saying that art should “serve to tell us something new”? Can you find a passage to quote that shows this and discuss it? Or perhaps you might find that he is saying something else about what he thinks art should do?

      Fabulous work on Beyonce, Hooks, O’Reilly, and Berlatsky! Nice to read your summary and quotes!
      M

      Reply

3. 1- Socrates imitative aspect of art is both a good and bad thing in my opinion. The way he views art is that there is only only one true nature an art piece should project. Rather than every art piece adjusted to look good in the moment. I say it’s a bad thing because everyone has potential to see the true nature of things and people also have voices. Meaning the many different ways people interrupt art are still valid and is a truth of its own. I also agree with art being imitative because some things are best left unchanged. Socrates also wants his readers and or followers to know what things actually are rather than what it looks like. In the text he states “Come now, reflect on this. The maker of the phantom, the
   imitator, we say, understands nothing of what is but rather of what
   looks like it is. Isn’t that so?”. In other words Plato is a man who only interrupts art as there to only be one truth to the image, not what other people think it to be.

   2- I personally think Beyoncé’s work appears to be an interpretation of a black women’s love and power. She wants to show her culture to see what a beautiful black women looks like and you can be one of the most important people in the nation as well. Even in Beyonce’s cover photo for the Time Magazine and song Partition was seen as inappropriate to children viewers because of the content in it. However Beyonce is the one who made the choice for her cover photo and video according to Janet Mock. In that choice she wants the show everyone a black women’s power

   3)
   a- Hooks interpolation on Beyonce is an anti-feminist who impacts little girls in a negative way. His argument on arts role in society states it comes for visual media like a TV, that’s how people especially young children are influenced from it.

   b- “I see a part of Beyonce that is in fact anti-femnisit , that is assaulting-that is a terrorist.”

   5)
   a- Simmons’ interpretation on Beyonce is a brilliant artist who inspires a lot of people . His argument on arts role in society is to inspire people and give them hope.

   b-“bill if you think that art comes out of a community is because of the struggle-”

   6)
   a- Berlatsky’s interpretation on Beyonce is a sexualized Sex Terrorist who sets bad examples and someone who is being used by media just like .

   b-” Why would she do that when she knows the devastation of unwanted pregnancies?”

   4)
   a- O’Reilly thinks that Beyonce is a role model to black girls but what she did was wrong in the video. O’Reilly’s argument about arts role in society is to protect the youth from anything inappropriate.

   b- As you may know, I’ve been very critical of harmful entertainment marketed largely to unsupervised children.”

   Reply

   1. Marcus,
      Good to read you. I really like your discussion of Beyonce’s work as announcing “black women’s love and power,” an interpretation you make of her work via Janet Mock (who as you’ve likely noticed, disagrees with Bell Hooks in that conversation about Beyonce). Can you take your analysis of the Time photo and Partition video further, though, by referring to specific parts of these two pieces of media? It’s always struck me that, at least in the Time photo, Beyonce presents a “lighter” (“whiter?”) version of herself to the public eye (look at the lighting of the photo, her skin tone that results from it, her choice of light flowy undergarments). What sense do you make of this in light of the interpretation that her work is about black women’s power?

      Also, please go back over your response to Plato: there are a lot of good ideas in there but some of these sentences feel short and disconnected. If you want help connecting some of your phrases, let me know and we can figure out a way to practice that. But most importantly, can you say more about what you think “Socrates’ imitative aspect of art” IS before you assert your own evaluation of it (that it is “both a good and a bad thing”)? We have to understand what the thing is (in this case, Socrates’ views on art) before we can evaluate them as being good and/or bad.

      Check your responses to O’Reilly and Berlatsky: I think that there was some confusion there.

      Reply

4. 1) In “The Republic”, Plato thinks of art as a bad thing because poets pretend knowing everything but in reality they know nothing. Plato says that every art is an imitation which is far from the truth. He states, “Between us-and you all won’t denounce me to the tragic poets and all the other imitators-all such things seem to maim the thought of those who hear them and do not as a remedy have the knowledge of how they really are.” Plato thinks that art should project reality and truth.
   2) Beyonce’s work appear to be an interpretation of her standards of beauty and sex. She created a standard of how a woman’s body should look to sexualize it and bring men’s attention to it as well. This leads younger girls to get unwanted pregnancies.
   3) Hooks sees Beyonce as an innocent figure who represents women of color fighting against “imperialist, white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.”
   3b) Quote: “is colluding in the construction of herself as a slave.” “It’s not a liberatory image.”
   4) O’Reilly is against Beyonce’s work. He thinks Beyonce affects young girls in a negative way because of their immaturity they look up to Beyonce and her work and it leads them to get unwanted pregnancies.
   4b)Quote: “Teenage girls look up to Beyoncé, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies. … Why would Beyoncé do that?”
   5) Simmons likes Beyonce’s work and he thinks that making a song about sex is normal because its natural thing that people do and it is okay to represent it in a song.
   5b) Quote: “She is a brilliant artist and she’s not only be people of color as you know, she is really one of the top artists in the world.”
   “And so when an artist expresses something that’s sexual in music it is a reflection of our reality.If we want that reality changed, then we have to do things that affect the core”
   6) Berlatsky’s views on Beyonce’s work is neutral because he is saying that she uses her body to get more attention to her arts and if she has to express something in her art she must be prepared for criticism and all the effect that her art brings in society.
   6b)Quote: “There does seem, then, to be some difficulty in thinking of Beyoncé as an artist making art while at the same time thinking of her as a body, to adorn videos, or magazine covers, or someone’s argument. That’s unfortunate, because if she is seen as an artist who’s speaking for herself, what she says is quite pointed.”
   “But certainly on the topic of sexualization and power, she has something to say. So if people are going to rather helplessly use her body to further their own agendas, it seems worth remembering that everybody has a person attached—and that that person is not just an object of analysis and scorn, but, potentially, someone who can offer a critique herself.”

   Reply

   1. Galina,
      Great work in your opening lines on both Plato and Beyonce. Careful with your final line on Plato though: part of what he is critical of is art depicting “reality” (and for him, “reality” and “truth” are not quite the same thing). Go further here in what you think he is saying art ought to focus on doing.

      Similarly, have another go at your conclusion on Beyonce: (how) does her work really “lead to unwanted pregnancies”? How does this connect to your thought that her work “interprets beauty standards and sex”?

      And…as I wrote to Brittny: can you take your view of Berlatsky’s view of Beyonce a bit further? It’s tricky because he’s not primarily interpreting Beyonce (although he does at the end of the article); his focus is first and foremost on interpreting O’Reilly and Hooks’ interpretations of Beyonce. What is his interpretation of these interpretations? In other words, what is his critique of them?

      Reply

5. 1.) Plato’s imitative aspect of art is an interesting theory in my perspective. Plato discusses that art basically imitates the objects and events of your everyday life. It replicates itself as a copy and mimics the senses that the artist can endure. I can agree with Plato’s theory because art is found in many different aspects of life. Art can be interpreted however the dilettante perceives it. His theory in my perspective believes you can produce authentic forms of art with imitation. “Imitation keeps company with the part in us that is far from prudence, and is not comrade and friend for any healthy or true purpose.”
   2.) Beyonce’s work seem to been an interpretation of sex. In O’Reilly’s interview with Russel Simmons he talks about the negative image she portrays to the African American underage girl who inspires to be like Beyonce. He continues to explain the demeaning impact these types of videos and songs can have on the youth. In my perspective Beyonce’ is answering these critics with this raunchy video. This interpretation of a good girl (as portrayed in the beginning on the video) to a sexualized, risky, burlesque woman is exactly what Beyonce I believe wants us to interpret this as. In the video to me it seems she is paying homage to civil rights activist and singer Josephine Baker. Baker was known to use her dazzling beauty and moves to captivate an audience. She is also known for the extensive contributions and work to the Civil Rights Movement. When Beyonce’ was performing in the flappers outfit and sparkly headpiece I instantly thought of Josephine Baker. Also in the video she is seen dancing behind a cage. My interpretation of that is she feels trapped. She feels as if she can’t be sexual or portray this side of her because of critics such as O’Reilly.
   3a. Hooks interpretation: Hook’s interpretation is Beyonce uses her image and platform in a negative impact. She believes she is anti-feminist and a terrorist for woman.
   B.) Quote- “I actually feel like the major assault of feminism in our society has come from visual media, and from television and videos.”
   4a.) O’Reilly’s interpretation: Does not agree with Beyonce’ portraying herself like this for the underage viewer and fans she has.
   4b.) Quote: “I believe and entertainer like Beyonce and a mogul like you (Simmons) has an obligation to protect children, not put out exploitive garbage that you know harms impressionable children.”
   5a.) Simmons interpretation: Beyonce is an artist. Regardless of what she’s portraying it’s a form of art. She is going to produce art that society wants. Sex sells
   5b.) Quote: “The artist job throughout history is to say things people are inspired by” … “She’s a brilliant artist.”
   6a.) Belatsky interpretation: Is neutral. I don’t believe Belatsky agrees nor disagrees with Beyonce instead he raises the similar question in why is she doing the video. Who is her target audience?
   6b.) Quote: “Is that Bill O’Reilly sitting across the table with his back to the camera, nose behind the newspaper, oblivious and/ or harrumphing?”

   Reply

   1. Nice reading you, Brittny–especially your thoughts on the Civil Rights references in the Beyonce video: super interesting.

      In looking back over this and revising this, can you reconsider your reading of the quotation you’ve culled from Plato? Pick apart the quote word by word, especially the first clause, and I think you may find he’s saying the opposite of what you’ve thought. (I’m not sure that imitation keeping “company with the part of us that is far from prudence” is a good thing, for Plato.)

      Similarly, can you take your view of Berlatsky’s view of Beyonce a bit further? It’s tricky because he’s not exactly interpreting Beyonce; his focus is first and foremost on interpreting O’Reilly and Hooks’ interpretations of Beyonce. What is his interpretation of these interpretations? In other words, what is his critique of them?

      Reply

6. 1. According to Plato, the art is showing one side of the story. It is usually expressed during grievances, situation, and anger. Poetry only shows the side of the oppressed, and does not show the bigger picture. In which Socrates stated that poetry is a biased kind of art. Socrates and Plato contradicts the statement made by Reufle, and the song lyrics of Partitioning because it is only showing the side of the artists.
   2. Beyonce’s interpretation of the song is that she is promoting love. Her work is to show that women are not just an object for sex, but as human as well. Her works are interpreting that women in today’s generation are treated as sex object objects. In that case Hooks, O’Reilly, and Simmons had united on criticising Beyonce’s work for her music video that allegedly promoted nudity as an art. What Beyonce had done is a form of art according to Greek Philosophy, because nudity shows the true image of things, person, and events. Art should be exposing all things such as injustice, prejudice, racism, and all negative things that hinders the society from progressing.
   Each commentator is arguing that Beyonce’s music is not art, but is a form of sexual immorality that may or may not inspire young women on following her ways.
   “Why on Earth, a woman would do that?” ~Simmons
   “She put a video that glorifies sex in the limousine”.~ O’Reilly
   There are no direct quotations from Berlatsky and Hooks.

   3.
   a. Hooks’ interpretation about Beyonce is that she is promoting illicit sexual desires that will degrade the dignity, and the integrity of the women. Hooks also interpreted that Beyonce is influencing young women because of her money.
   b. There are no quotes directly from Hooks, but there is a description. The description is “Hooks speculates that Beyonce’s appeal is not just her beauty but with money”.
   4.
   a. O’Reilly’s argument stated that Beyonce is promoting monogamous sexual relationships, but in a way that is explicit that can degrade the human dignity of women. Especially when teenage girls are looking up at Beyonce as a model.
   b. ”Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly to girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation of unwanted pregnancies”.
   5
   a. Simmons has argued that Beyonce’s music videos have brutalizing effects due to nudity that is against moral ethics.
   b. There are no quotes from Simmons.
   6
   a. Berlatsky argued that Beyonce is an artist speaking for herself because not only she is advocating women’s rights, she is showing how women should be respected at all times. Beyonce is also promoting self-care, bolstering self-esteem, and having self-respect.
   b. There are no direct quotes from Berlatsky, but he is describing the side of Beyonce, and the people who are against her.

   Reply

   1. Jesse,
      Nice thought about Plato’s view of art only “showing one side of the story.” Can you find a passage that refers to this and then quote it and discuss it? Also, how do you think Plato contradicts Ruefle and/or Beyonce? There’s much more to say here I think.

      As for Beyonce, nice thought that she’s trying to “show that women are not just sex objects”; again, can you elaborate this thought more? What in her work (the lyrics, the video, the Time image) signals to you that she’s critiquing the way women are made into sex objects?

      Careful with Simmons: I think he may be more supportive of B than you’re crediting him here for. Have another look.

      Also, please provide quotations from all of the articles, including Simmons and Berlatsky. This is perhaps the most important part of this assignment, for me at least.
      Thanks.

      Reply

7. 1. In “The Republic” by Plato, I find Plato’s views of art to be negative. He sees art/paintings as a form of. In the text it says, “..imitation is surely far from the truth; and as it seems, it is due to this that it produces everything – because it lays hold of a certain small part of each thing, and that part is itself only a phantom… if he is a good painter, by painting a carpenter and displaying him from far off, he would deceive children and foolish human beings.” In this text he stating how creating a copy/imitation of something creates a false representation of the truth. The example used with a painter painting a carpenter. Plato believes art is imitation which is deceitful and hides the reality.
   2. Beyonce’s music mainly depicts feminism and sexuality. Her work focuses on the female body and the power of sexualizing it. In Beyonce’s video “Partition” in which she presents herself having sex in a limo with her husband while name dropping Monica Lewinsky. To a conservatives point of view it can be viewed as an insult and does not follow their traditional values.
   3-A. Bell Hooks’ views Beyonce as an antifeminist, assaulting, and as a terrorist. She believes this due to the impact it has on young girls.
   3-Bell Hooks’ quote: ” I actually feel like the major assault on feminism in our society has come from visual media, from television and videos.”
   4-O’Reilly’s view on Beyonce’s work is also negative because he feels like it’s a threat to the young and makes young girls aspire to be like that
   4- Bell Hooks’ quote: “I believe in entertainment and an entertainer like Beyonce and a mogul like you have an obligation to protect children, not put out exploitive garbage that you know harms impressionable children.”
   5- Simmons’ views on Beyonce’s work is more positive. He feels that Beyonce’s work is art and that it is natural for Beyonce as an artist to make music based off of something that inspired her from a natural activity.
   5- Bell Hooks’ quote: “I think the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell— to say things that people are inspired by…And so when an artist expresses something that’s sexual in music it is a reflection of our reality.”
   6-Berlatsky’s views are that Beyonce only shows vulnerability and no power opposed to what the song is about, “power”. He adds on by explaining that it is difficult to consider Beyonce an artist because she is depicting sexuality and her body.
   6- Bell Hooks’ quote: “There does seem to be some difficulty in thinking of Beyonce as an artist making art while at the same time thinking of her as a body, to adorn videos, or magazine covers, or someone’s argument.”

   Reply

   1. Good thoughts on Plato, Melanie–tell me more, though, about what Plato thinks art ought to do. You’re right he’s very negative, but I think it’s possible to discern from his text at least a vague sense of how he wants good art to impact people.

      I’m interested in how you think Beyonce’s music “depicts feminism”: can you say more about this?

      Lastly, loop back to Berlatsky’s text: I think you’ll find upon re-reading it that he’s saying something quite different (and supportive) about B’s work. Also, please give this a bit of a proofread——I’m noticing some glitches, typos. Otherwise, bravo!

      Reply

8. In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

   I’m gonna be honest, it was a real struggle for me to read Plato’s story. I left it until last because I just couldn’t do it, and then I was dreading it. By the time I actually brought myself to read it I had to do it multiple times because I couldn’t focus due to scaffolding being put up right outside my window. All I heard while reading was stomping, metal scraping metal and metal thrown on metal, and annoying hammering. It was very loud and distracting. Hence, why I submitted this on Monday.
   I honestly didn’t really understand the dialogue despite reading it many times. Maybe I had some kind of mental block but I did my best to answer the questions. I feel I did way better answering #2-6.
   I think what Plato was trying to say about imitators is that they are in a way copying what those before them have done. For example, what he says about the couch, “the man at the third generation from nature”. I think this means that the first man to create a couch is “nature” and his son creating a couch is simply learning how, but the grandson (third-generation) is now just imitating the original. At first, I didn’t know if Plato would say imitative is good or bad, but I believe he believes it’s repetitive. As I read on I get more of the sense that he thinks it’s bad.
   I think he values original work more, work that speaks the truth. He calls painting deceitful because it alters the truth of things. I think he believes that if the artists knew and understood the truth of what they’re going to base their work on, it would be less imitative that they’d be more serious. (pg 100)
   The main thing that repeats is how much Plato values truth. He seems to believe that imitators don’t value it and that seems like a bad thing to him. He wants people to see art for what it really is, and he wants the artists to create the truth, in truth. He wants art to represent truth and for people to see that truth, but he believes in reality, that all artists do is alter it.

   This leads me to the next question I’d like you to respond to (after reading everything, viewing Beyoncé’s “Partition” video, and looking at her Time cover photo, linked above):
   What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of…

   I’m going to merge my response to #2, a, and b because I’ve got quite a bit to say regarding the articles in response to her video, what I think of her video, and also the Time cover. Let’s start with the article in regards to her video. In the article, they mention her reference to Monica Lewinsky and how there’s something political behind it. In my opinion, she was simply using it as a verb because there is nothing that precedes it or follows it that has any kind of political nature. At least nothing other than sex. The lyrics literally are, “He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown…daddy didn’t bring the towel.” It’s pretty obvious that this statement is referring to the fact that her husband came on her dress and they didn’t have the towel to clean it up with.” Some may argue that she could have used another name or she could have just said that he came, but I think the purpose of using “Monica Lewinski’s” name is “scandal”. Her video in and of itself is scandalous whether it is her husband or not, that is in the video. But something being scandalous doesn’t always mean it’s a negative thing. “Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash” Any kind of sex caught on camera is considered scandalous regardless of the sanctity of marriage. The act in itself isn’t wrong or bad, but the fact that it’s caught on camera or displayed. It’s considered a private thing. But, the goal of Beyonce’s video being about sex in a limo isn’t to display her sex life as a negative thing or a bad influence on young girls. I’ll talk more about that later. But since her private sex life being displayed is considered “scandalous” I believe she specifically used “Monica Lewinski’s” name due to its association with a scandal of its own. Specifically, a sex scandal. I don’t think she meant it as a political attack but IF she meant it as any kind of attack I think it’s simply the fact that she can make her husband cum and Hillary “can’t”, which could be considered the reason why her husband sought an affair in the first place. Going back to her video not being a bad thing or a bad influence on young girls. In the article, they said, “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…Why would Beyonce do that?” I can see what they would think that but they are forgetting a couple of VERY important details.

   1. Beyonce is a grown-ass woman. Of course, she’s going to be having sex she’s an adult. If she was a teenager or even in her early 20’s then okay maybe they have a point.
   2. She’s MARRIED. It’s not like she’s having sex with some guy she’s been dating for 2 weeks.
   3. It’s literally her HUSBAND in the video, not some strange man that could signify an affair.
   4, Keep this timeline in mind: They got married in 2008, had Blue Ivy in 2012, and this sex-heavy video was released in 2014. More on this below.
   As the timeline above mentions, her wedding was in 2008 that means she’s been married for 6 years when the video came out. Do you know how many marriages still have that much sex 6 years in AND with a 2-year-old? Not many I’m sure. Also, she has a child. I’m sure she is very well aware of the fact that her daughter and any future children will someday see this. As disturbing as it may be to see your parents all over each other like that, it doesn’t change the main thing. What love should look like.”O’Reilly sees himself as defending conservative family values.” But in my opinion, there are no values being broken. I think she’s showing those teenage girls what a healthy marriage should look like (minus the paparazzi). She’s showing them that even 6 years into a marriage, and with a baby, you can love each other so much that you can’t even keep your hands off each other for more than “45-minutes”. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

   Now in regards to her Time cover photo, The keyword here is “time”. This cover was released shortly after her Partition video but we see a completely different side of Beyonce. I think this cover is a statement from her not about “colluding in the construction of herself as a slave” but as a normal woman who has her innocent side. If you ask me, that quoted statement above is racist. She herself isn’t a slave and never was. She wasn’t around when slavery was a thing. Saying she’s “constructing herself as a slave” to me is the equivalent of calling her a slave. They CLEARLY don’t know Beyonce. I don’t know much about her, but from every single song I’ve seen or video of her speaking, or article about her; I know she has always been powerful and empowering. She speaks volumes to women (and men too). People worship her words because they’re true and help many through things. I mean her songs alone speak louder than anything. “Survivor, single ladies, lemonade”. Regardless of what she goes through she comes out strong. She would never make herself look weak or “owned” unless she had the purpose and intention to appear that way. But what I think her image in Time shows, is that regardless of her sensual side, she has an innocent and ladylike side. A side she’s always had regardless of the “time” that has passed.

   3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):

   I can’t even begin to believe that he said “a little girl we can lust after” or that he brought child abuse into the picture by referring to Woody Allen. Why do we “have to” draw that connection to “enslaved black female bodies”? One thing he’s not wrong about is the way women’s bodies are viewed. I took a class in high school where we were assigned to find ads that sexualize females and let me tell you, I was done in 2 minutes because the images were so easy to find. They say “sex sells” but in reality, it’s “sexualized females sell”. I’ve seen an ad, side by side images, one where the woman had her legs crossed with a closed jewelry box in front of her. And in the second image, the man reveals a big diamond in the box, and the woman’s legs were uncrossed and slightly spread. Another ad for cologne, the bottle is held in between a topless woman’s breasts with her hands covering her nipples. Even burger king had an ad of a woman, mouth open, and about to bite into a phallic-shaped sandwich that was captioned “It’ll Blow your mind away” and the sandwich described as the “BK Super Seven Incher”. I feel like Hooks just keeps trying to bring slavery into this just because Beyonce is black, and then playing it off by adding in “girls, of all colors”. What I think is that Beyonce knew exactly what she was doing wearing that outfit. And not in the least sexualizing herself. It may be underwear but she’s literally wearing Granny panties that cover her up to her waist and a bra that doesn’t allow for cleavage to really show, plus a cover-up (despite the fact that it’s see-through). There is nothing “sexy” about what she’s dressed in. If she was dressed in a bikini or lingerie that’s a different story, but a story she would be purposefully telling.

   3b (Quotation from Hooks):
   (I couldn’t paste a photo of the quote here but it’s visible in my google doc of HW Prompt#2)

   4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):

   I believe I answered this in my rant in question 2 and provided the evidence as to why I believe what I believe. But I don’t agree with his interpretation. I think he’s just trying to make Beyonce into a bad guy that condones underage sex when in reality I think she’s doing the opposite considering she is a grown, married woman that also has a baby in 2014.

   4b (Quotation from O’Reilly):
   (I couldn’t paste a photo of the quote here but it’s visible in my google doc of HW Prompt#2)

   5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument):

   I think Simmon’s understands it. First of all, he was completely bombarded by O’Reilly about Beyonce when he was actually there to talk about the book and that’s not fair at all. But I’m happy with what he said when defending Beyonce because the facts are real. And He couldn’t have said it any better. (Quotes below) After all, he is a parent of two, if he’s not outraged by this because he understands it, then I don’t see that O’Reilly’s point is valid at all. Yes, there are girls and boys that don’t have “an amazing mother or ok father” but if they look up to someone like Beyonce then they know her values and they know exactly the meaning behind that song. A song written by a married woman and mother.

   5b (Quotation from Simmons):
   (I couldn’t paste a photo of the quote here but it’s visible in my google doc of HW Prompt#2)

   6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):
   6b (Quotation from Berlatsky):

   I believe I answered 6a and 6b in #2 in which this article was my main focus for my answer. It’s a lot of info to repeat and have you read the same thing again. The quotes and interpretations are included in #2.

   Reply

   1. Stephanie,
      Totally epic response–bravo! My apologies and sympathy for the Plato text. Perhaps if we were in person I could have made the experience of reading this dialogue (remember, it’s a dialogue between an elderly philosopher and his boy lover–how fun!) a bit less painful, but alas… Anyway, I think your hard work reading paid off because you’re really grasping a good deal of Plato’s critique of mimesis in art. The only thing I’d say would be to go further with unpacking what you think Plato means by “truth”——and art’s role in revealing it. It occurs to me that he doesn’t really say much hear about the art he likes (the text is centered on his critique of art/poetry he doesn’t like) but it also seems that there’s enough here to glean what he hopes art will do (which maybe aligns him with Bell Hooks and O’Reilly in the debate about Beyonce).

      One note about Bell Hooks: she’s a woman——a black woman, no less, who is one of the most important figures in late 20th century intersectional (meaning race-charged) feminism. You can look her up if you want, but I just didn’t want you to leave this conversation thinking she’s just another white dude critiquing B. Her identity matters for thinking about her perspective (albeit part of her identity is that she’s also rather OLD now and views sexuality differently than subsequent generations of feminists).

      Glad for your mini-research-paper-esque argument regarding sex in Beyonce’s work. I’m missing your reference to Berlatsky here (whose view I think might really resonate with yours); can you bring him into the mix a bit more?
      Thanks,
      M

      Reply

      1. My response to your feedback:

         Stephanie,
         M: Totally epic response–bravo!
         S: Thank you so much!
         M: My apologies and sympathy for the Plato text. Perhaps if we were in person I could have made the experience of reading this dialogue (remember, it’s a dialogue between an elderly philosopher and his boy lover–how fun!) a bit less painful, but alas…
         S: Haha! Who doesn’t love dialogue between an old philosopher and his boy lover?! But yes, I think I would have enjoyed it more if it was an in-person experience, I’d imagine it would be very similar to my Western Lit class when I read Beowulf and Dante’s Inferno.
         M: Anyway, I think your hard work reading paid off because you’re really grasping a good deal of Plato’s critique of mimesis in art. The only thing I’d say would be to go further with unpacking what you think Plato means by “truth”——and art’s role in revealing it. It occurs to me that he doesn’t really say much hear about the art he likes (the text is centered on his critique of art/poetry he doesn’t like) but it also seems that there’s enough here to glean what he hopes art will do (which maybe aligns him with Bell Hooks and O’Reilly in the debate about Beyonce).
         S: Thank you, I’m glad you think so! We did a lot of interpretation in my high school English class and focused on motifs, etc. So I may have had a slight advantage! And I agree that Bell Hooks and O’Reilly match Plato’s beliefs! I focused on that in Prompt #3!
         M: One note about Bell Hooks: she’s a woman——a black woman, no less, who is one of the most important figures in late 20th century intersectional (meaning race-charged) feminism. You can look her up if you want, but I just didn’t want you to leave this conversation thinking she’s just another white dude critiquing B. Her identity matters for thinking about her perspective (albeit part of her identity is that she’s also rather OLD now and views sexuality differently than subsequent generations of feminists).
         S: Haha, yea I 100% thought she was some dude hating on B. When I looked her up I was even more shocked by her response especially considering she wrote “Ain’t I a Woman?” and is all about Feminism. I think there’s also something about responding to the text without knowing who the speaker was because it keeps the response to it unbiased, but I still stand by what I said about her response and added more to it now that I know who she is and what she’s known for.
         M: Glad for your mini-research-paper-esque argument regarding sex in Beyonce’s work. I’m missing your reference to Berlatsky here (whose view I think might really resonate with yours); can you bring him into the mix a bit more?
         S: My bad, I confused myself and thought I wrote about him because he used a lot of the quotes I referenced, in his own work. One thing he said really stood out to me so I added that into my response for HW #3! And I agree about his views matching mine! I’m all about self-respect and positive body image, etc. I can see why O’Reilly and Hooks responded the way they did but I really think they were off base considering Beyonce’s history and all the factors revolving around that song. I mean honestly, they were acting like B was Miley Cyrus circa 2013.

         In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

         I think what Plato was trying to say about imitators is that they are in a way copying what those before them have done. For example, what he says about the couch, “the man at the third generation from nature”. I think this means that the first man to create a couch is “nature” and his son creating a couch is simply learning how, but the grandson (third generation) is now just imitating the original. At first I didn’t know if Plato would say imitative is good or bad, but I believe he believes it’s repetitive. As I read on I get more of the sense that he thinks it’s bad, although he didn’t outright say it was.
         I think he values original work more,work that speaks the truth. He calls painting deceitful, because it alters the truth of things. I think he believes that if the artists knew and understood the truth of what they’re going to base their work on, it would be less imitative that they’d be more serious.(pg 100)

         I think the best example of what Plato means is a video I once saw and I’ll attach the link to it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=litXW91UauE) But basically, this sketch artist has a person sit hidden from him and has them describe themself to the artist. The artist then draws what the person as they describe themself to him. He also has them interact with a second person and has them come in and describe the first person to him while he sketches that as well. In the end, he posts both descriptions of the same person side by side and shows it to the person he drew. He shows them what they believe is their true self (I think this represents the artists that draw things the way they see things aka what Plato is against). And he also shows them what really IS their true self (the description the stranger gave aka what Plato believes is truth). It can also be looked at in the opposite way. (I’m going to use Ms. X as a fill-in name for person 1 to eliminate confusion). What I mean by the opposite way is this: Ms. X described herself to the artist with what she believes she truly looks like. That description is a reflection of how she feels about herself on the inside. Something we can call her inner truth (aka what Plato thinks art should reflect to be considered true art.) But the description that the stranger gives of Ms. X is just the stranger’s version of the truth. Shaped to his liking. (aka what Plato stands against). It can be argued both ways but in the end, one thing remains the same and that’s Plato’s beliefs. 1. That art should speak the truth and nothing but the truth. And 2. Art should not be one individual person’s view of what the truth might be. The main thing that repeats is how much Plato values truth. He seems to believe that imitators don’t value it and that seems like a bad thing to him. He wants people to see art for what it really is, and he wants the artists to create the truth, in truth. He wants art to represent truth and for people to see that truth, but he believes in reality that all artists do is alter it. The key here is that he wants to conserve the truth, technically making him a conservative. This is a view very similar to O’Reilly and Hooks who want to conserve a young girl’s mind. More in this in the next response.

         What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of…

         I’m going to merge my response to #2, A, and B because I’ve got quite a bit to say regarding the articles in response to her video, what I think of her video, and also the Time cover. Let’s start with the article in regards to her video. In the article, they mention her reference to Monica Lewinsky and how there’s something political behind it. In my opinion, she was simply using it as a verb because there is nothing that precedes it or follows it that has any kind of political nature. At least, nothing other than sex. The lyrics literally are, “He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown…daddy didn’t bring the towel.” It’s pretty obvious that this statement is referring to the fact that her husband came on her dress and they didn’t have “the towel” to clean it up with. Some may argue that she could have used another name or she could have just said that “he came”, but I think the purpose of using “Monica Lewinski’s” name, is “scandal”. Her video in and of itself is scandalous whether it is her husband or not that is in the video. But, something being scandalous doesn’t always mean it’s a negative thing.
         “Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash” Any kind of sex caught on camera is considered scandalous regardless of the sanctity of marriage. The act, in itself, isn’t wrong or bad. The fact that it’s caught on camera or displayed publicly is seen as so. It’s considered a private thing. I don’t believe that Beyonce’s goal was to display her sex life as a negative thing or a bad influence on young girls. But, I’ll talk more about that later. Since her private sex life being displayed is considered “scandalous”, I believe she specifically used “Monica Lewinski’s” name due to its association with a scandal of its own. Specifically, a sex scandal. I don’t think she meant it as a political attack but IF she meant it as any kind of attack I think it’s simply the fact that she can make her husband cum and Hillary “can’t”, which could be considered the reason why her husband sought an affair in the first place.
         Going back to her video not being a bad thing or a bad influence on young girls; in the interview O’Reilly said, “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…Why would Beyonce do that?” I can see why O’Reilly would think that with teen pregnancy stats at the time, but he’s forgetting a couple of VERY important details.
         1. Beyonce is a grown-ass woman. Of course, she’s going to be having sex! She’s an adult! If she was a teenager, or even in her early 20’s, then okay… maybe he has a tiny point. I’m in no way condoning underage sex, but who are we to judge other people’s actions? Especially when we don’t know their stories…their history.
         2. She’s MARRIED. It’s not like she’s having sex with some guy she’s been dating for 2 weeks.
         It’s literally her HUSBAND in the video, not some strange man that could signify an affair.
         3. Keep this timeline in mind: They got married in 2008, had Blue Ivy in 2012, and this sex-heavy video was released in 2014. More on this below.

         As the timeline above mentions, her wedding was in 2008 that means she’s been married for 6 years when the video came out. Do you know how many marriages still have that much sex 6 years in AND with a 2-year-old? Not many I’m sure. Also, she has a child. I’m sure she is very well aware of the fact that her daughter and any future children will someday see this. As disturbing as it may be to see your parents all over each other like that, it doesn’t change the main thing: What love should look like. O’Reilly sees himself as “defending conservative family values.” But in my opinion, there are no values being broken. I think she’s showing those teenage girls what a healthy marriage should look like (minus the paparazzi). She’s showing them that even 6 years into a marriage, and with a baby, you can love each other so much that you can’t even keep your hands off each other for more than “45-minutes”. I don’t see anything wrong with that. In fact, that’s the kind of marriage many aspire to have!

         Now in regards to her Time cover photo, The keyword here is “time”. This cover was released shortly after her Partition video but we see a completely different side of Beyonce. I think this cover is a statement from her not about “colluding in the construction of herself as a slave”, but as a normal woman who has an innocent side. If you ask me, that quoted statement above is racist. She herself isn’t a slave and never was. She wasn’t around when slavery was a thing. Saying she’s “constructing herself as a slave” to me is the equivalent of calling her a slave. What really baffles me is the fact that Bell Hooks is saying these things in comparison to the works she’s known for. I mean she’s the one that wrote that famous piece, “Ain’t I A Woman?”. I mean she’s all about Black women and feminism; and the second Beyonce shows a glimpse of “Black Feminism” she gets attacked by the very same Bell Hooks who exhibits the complete opposite of Feminism in her reaction. Yes, I understand she’s a little bit older but age doesn’t define feminism. We’ve all fought hard to step away from being just a house-wife and child-bearer and now that Beyonce was showing what that looks like, Bell Hooks is acting like Beyonce broke the sacred rule of “she’s meant to be a house-wife and child-bearer/Southern Belle”. Not to mention that Bell Hooks doesn’t seem to know Beyonce. I think Beyonce is literally answering Bell Hooks question of “Ain’t I a Woman?” with “I’m 100% woman. I don’t know much about Beyonce, but from every single song I’ve seen or video of her speaking, or article about her; I know she has always been powerful and empowering. She speaks volumes to women (and men too). People worship her words because they’re true and help many through tough things. I mean her songs alone speak louder than anything. “Survivor, Single Ladies, Lemonade”. Regardless of what she goes through she comes out strong. She would never make herself look weak or “owned” unless she had the purpose and intention to appear that way. But what I think her image in Time shows, is that regardless of her sensual side, she has an innocent and ladylike side. A side she’s always had regardless of the “time” that has passed. To conclude, I think Berlatsky said it perfectly, “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”; taking us two steps back in feminism.

         3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):

         I can’t even begin to believe that she said “a little girl we can lust after” or that she brought child abuse into the picture by referring to Woody Allen. Why do we “have to” draw that connection to “enslaved black female bodies”? One thing she’s not wrong about is the way women’s bodies are viewed. I took a class in high school where we were assigned to find ads that sexualize females and let me tell you, I was done in 2 minutes because the images were so easy to find. People say “sex sells” but in reality, it’s “sexualized females sell”. I’ve seen an ad that consisted of 2 side by side images, one where the woman had her legs crossed with a closed jewelry box in front of her and in the other the man reveals a big diamond in the box, and the woman’s legs were uncrossed and slightly spread. Another ad for cologne, the bottle is held in between a topless woman’s breasts with her hands covering her nipples. Even burger king had an ad of a woman, mouth open, and about to bite into a phallic-shaped sandwich that was captioned “It’ll Blow your mind away” and the sandwich described as the “BK Super Seven Incher”.
         I feel like Hooks just keeps trying to bring slavery into this just because Beyonce is black, and then playing it off by adding in “girls, of all colors”. What I think is that Beyonce knew exactly what she was doing wearing that outfit. And not in the least sexualizing herself. It may be underwear but she’s literally wearing Granny panties that cover her up to her waist and a bra that doesn’t allow for cleavage to really show, plus a cover-up (despite the fact that it’s see-through). There is nothing “sexy” about what she’s dressed in. If she was dressed in a slinky bikini or lingerie that’s a different story, but a story she would be purposefully telling.

         3b (Quotation from Hooks): (Quote image on google doc)

         4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered this in my rant in question 2 and provided the evidence as to why I believe what I believe. But I don’t agree with his interpretation. I think he’s just trying to make Beyonce into a bad guy that condones underage sex when in reality I think she’s doing the opposite considering she is a grown, married woman that also has a baby in 2014.

         4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): (Quote image on google doc)

         5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument):

         I think Simmon’s understands it. First of all, he was completely bombarded by O’Reilly about Beyonce when he was actually there to talk about the book, and that’s not fair at all. But I’m happy with what he said when defending Beyonce because the facts are real. And he couldn’t have said it any better. (Quotes below) After all, he is a parent of two. If he’s not outraged by this because he understands it, then I don’t see that O’Reilly’s point is valid at all. Yes, there are girls and boys that don’t have “an amazing mother or ok father” but if they look up to someone like Beyonce then they know her values and they know exactly the meaning behind that song. A song written by a married woman and mother.

         5b (Quotation from Simmons): (Quote image on google doc)

         6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered 6a and 6b in #2 in which this article was my main focus for my answer. I think his interpretation (from the quote I used above) supported all the info I talked about in #2. I didn’t think it necessary to add any more to it.

         6b (Quotation from Berlatsky):

         “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”

         Reply

      2. My response to your feedback:

         Stephanie,
         M: Totally epic response–bravo!
         S: Thank you so much!
         M: My apologies and sympathy for the Plato text. Perhaps if we were in person I could have made the experience of reading this dialogue (remember, it’s a dialogue between an elderly philosopher and his boy lover–how fun!) a bit less painful, but alas…
         S: Haha! Who doesn’t love dialogue between an old philosopher and his boy lover?! But yes, I think I would have enjoyed it more if it was an in-person experience, I’d imagine it would be very similar to my Western Lit class when I read Beowulf and Dante’s Inferno.
         M: Anyway, I think your hard work reading paid off because you’re really grasping a good deal of Plato’s critique of mimesis in art. The only thing I’d say would be to go further with unpacking what you think Plato means by “truth”——and art’s role in revealing it. It occurs to me that he doesn’t really say much hear about the art he likes (the text is centered on his critique of art/poetry he doesn’t like) but it also seems that there’s enough here to glean what he hopes art will do (which maybe aligns him with Bell Hooks and O’Reilly in the debate about Beyonce).
         S: Thank you, I’m glad you think so! We did a lot of interpretation in my high school English class and focused on motifs, etc. So I may have had a slight advantage! And I agree that Bell Hooks and O’Reilly match Plato’s beliefs! I focused on that in Prompt #3!
         M: One note about Bell Hooks: she’s a woman——a black woman, no less, who is one of the most important figures in late 20th century intersectional (meaning race-charged) feminism. You can look her up if you want, but I just didn’t want you to leave this conversation thinking she’s just another white dude critiquing B. Her identity matters for thinking about her perspective (albeit part of her identity is that she’s also rather OLD now and views sexuality differently than subsequent generations of feminists).
         S: Haha, yea I 100% thought she was some dude hating on B. When I looked her up I was even more shocked by her response especially considering she wrote “Ain’t I a Woman?” and is all about Feminism. I think there’s also something about responding to the text without knowing who the speaker was because it keeps the response to it unbiased, but I still stand by what I said about her response and added more to it now that I know who she is and what she’s known for.
         M: Glad for your mini-research-paper-esque argument regarding sex in Beyonce’s work. I’m missing your reference to Berlatsky here (whose view I think might really resonate with yours); can you bring him into the mix a bit more?
         S: My bad, I confused myself and thought I wrote about him because he used a lot of the quotes I referenced, in his own work. One thing he said really stood out to me so I added that into my response for HW #3! And I agree about his views matching mine! I’m all about self-respect and positive body image, etc. I can see why O’Reilly and Hooks responded the way they did but I really think they were off base considering Beyonce’s history and all the factors revolving around that song. I mean honestly, they were acting like B was Miley Cyrus circa 2013.

         In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

         I think what Plato was trying to say about imitators is that they are in a way copying what those before them have done. For example, what he says about the couch, “the man at the third generation from nature”. I think this means that the first man to create a couch is “nature” and his son creating a couch is simply learning how, but the grandson (third generation) is now just imitating the original. At first I didn’t know if Plato would say imitative is good or bad, but I believe he believes it’s repetitive. As I read on I get more of the sense that he thinks it’s bad, although he didn’t outright say it was.
         I think he values original work more,work that speaks the truth. He calls painting deceitful, because it alters the truth of things. I think he believes that if the artists knew and understood the truth of what they’re going to base their work on, it would be less imitative that they’d be more serious.(pg 100)

         I think the best example of what Plato means is a video I once saw and I’ll attach the link to it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=litXW91UauE) But basically, this sketch artist has a person sit hidden from him and has them describe themself to the artist. The artist then draws what the person as they describe themself to him. He also has them interact with a second person and has them come in and describe the first person to him while he sketches that as well. In the end, he posts both descriptions of the same person side by side and shows it to the person he drew. He shows them what they believe is their true self (I think this represents the artists that draw things the way they see things aka what Plato is against). And he also shows them what really IS their true self (the description the stranger gave aka what Plato believes is truth). It can also be looked at in the opposite way. (I’m going to use Ms. X as a fill-in name for person 1 to eliminate confusion). What I mean by the opposite way is this: Ms. X described herself to the artist with what she believes she truly looks like. That description is a reflection of how she feels about herself on the inside. Something we can call her inner truth (aka what Plato thinks art should reflect to be considered true art.) But the description that the stranger gives of Ms. X is just the stranger’s version of the truth. Shaped to his liking. (aka what Plato stands against). It can be argued both ways but in the end, one thing remains the same and that’s Plato’s beliefs. 1. That art should speak the truth and nothing but the truth. And 2. Art should not be one individual person’s view of what the truth might be. The main thing that repeats is how much Plato values truth. He seems to believe that imitators don’t value it and that seems like a bad thing to him. He wants people to see art for what it really is, and he wants the artists to create the truth, in truth. He wants art to represent truth and for people to see that truth, but he believes in reality that all artists do is alter it. The key here is that he wants to conserve the truth, technically making him a conservative. This is a view very similar to O’Reilly and Hooks who want to conserve a young girl’s mind. More in this in the next response.

         What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of…

         I’m going to merge my response to #2, A, and B because I’ve got quite a bit to say regarding the articles in response to her video, what I think of her video, and also the Time cover. Let’s start with the article in regards to her video. In the article, they mention her reference to Monica Lewinsky and how there’s something political behind it. In my opinion, she was simply using it as a verb because there is nothing that precedes it or follows it that has any kind of political nature. At least, nothing other than sex. The lyrics literally are, “He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown…daddy didn’t bring the towel.” It’s pretty obvious that this statement is referring to the fact that her husband came on her dress and they didn’t have “the towel” to clean it up with. Some may argue that she could have used another name or she could have just said that “he came”, but I think the purpose of using “Monica Lewinski’s” name, is “scandal”. Her video in and of itself is scandalous whether it is her husband or not that is in the video. But, something being scandalous doesn’t always mean it’s a negative thing.
         “Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash” Any kind of sex caught on camera is considered scandalous regardless of the sanctity of marriage. The act, in itself, isn’t wrong or bad. The fact that it’s caught on camera or displayed publicly is seen as so. It’s considered a private thing. I don’t believe that Beyonce’s goal was to display her sex life as a negative thing or a bad influence on young girls. But, I’ll talk more about that later. Since her private sex life being displayed is considered “scandalous”, I believe she specifically used “Monica Lewinski’s” name due to its association with a scandal of its own. Specifically, a sex scandal. I don’t think she meant it as a political attack but IF she meant it as any kind of attack I think it’s simply the fact that she can make her husband cum and Hillary “can’t”, which could be considered the reason why her husband sought an affair in the first place.
         Going back to her video not being a bad thing or a bad influence on young girls; in the interview O’Reilly said, “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…Why would Beyonce do that?” I can see why O’Reilly would think that with teen pregnancy stats at the time, but he’s forgetting a couple of VERY important details.
         1. Beyonce is a grown-ass woman. Of course, she’s going to be having sex! She’s an adult! If she was a teenager, or even in her early 20’s, then okay… maybe he has a tiny point. I’m in no way condoning underage sex, but who are we to judge other people’s actions? Especially when we don’t know their stories…their history.
         2. She’s MARRIED. It’s not like she’s having sex with some guy she’s been dating for 2 weeks.
         It’s literally her HUSBAND in the video, not some strange man that could signify an affair.
         3. Keep this timeline in mind: They got married in 2008, had Blue Ivy in 2012, and this sex-heavy video was released in 2014. More on this below.

         As the timeline above mentions, her wedding was in 2008 that means she’s been married for 6 years when the video came out. Do you know how many marriages still have that much sex 6 years in AND with a 2-year-old? Not many I’m sure. Also, she has a child. I’m sure she is very well aware of the fact that her daughter and any future children will someday see this. As disturbing as it may be to see your parents all over each other like that, it doesn’t change the main thing: What love should look like. O’Reilly sees himself as “defending conservative family values.” But in my opinion, there are no values being broken. I think she’s showing those teenage girls what a healthy marriage should look like (minus the paparazzi). She’s showing them that even 6 years into a marriage, and with a baby, you can love each other so much that you can’t even keep your hands off each other for more than “45-minutes”. I don’t see anything wrong with that. In fact, that’s the kind of marriage many aspire to have!

         Now in regards to her Time cover photo, The keyword here is “time”. This cover was released shortly after her Partition video but we see a completely different side of Beyonce. I think this cover is a statement from her not about “colluding in the construction of herself as a slave”, but as a normal woman who has an innocent side. If you ask me, that quoted statement above is racist. She herself isn’t a slave and never was. She wasn’t around when slavery was a thing. Saying she’s “constructing herself as a slave” to me is the equivalent of calling her a slave. What really baffles me is the fact that Bell Hooks is saying these things in comparison to the works she’s known for. I mean she’s the one that wrote that famous piece, “Ain’t I A Woman?”. I mean she’s all about Black women and feminism; and the second Beyonce shows a glimpse of “Black Feminism” she gets attacked by the very same Bell Hooks who exhibits the complete opposite of Feminism in her reaction. Yes, I understand she’s a little bit older but age doesn’t define feminism. We’ve all fought hard to step away from being just a house-wife and child-bearer and now that Beyonce was showing what that looks like, Bell Hooks is acting like Beyonce broke the sacred rule of “she’s meant to be a house-wife and child-bearer/Southern Belle”. Not to mention that Bell Hooks doesn’t seem to know Beyonce. I think Beyonce is literally answering Bell Hooks question of “Ain’t I a Woman?” with “I’m 100% woman. I don’t know much about Beyonce, but from every single song I’ve seen or video of her speaking, or article about her; I know she has always been powerful and empowering. She speaks volumes to women (and men too). People worship her words because they’re true and help many through tough things. I mean her songs alone speak louder than anything. “Survivor, Single Ladies, Lemonade”. Regardless of what she goes through she comes out strong. She would never make herself look weak or “owned” unless she had the purpose and intention to appear that way. But what I think her image in Time shows, is that regardless of her sensual side, she has an innocent and ladylike side. A side she’s always had regardless of the “time” that has passed. To conclude, I think Berlatsky said it perfectly, “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”; taking us two steps back in feminism.

         3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):

         I can’t even begin to believe that she said “a little girl we can lust after” or that she brought child abuse into the picture by referring to Woody Allen. Why do we “have to” draw that connection to “enslaved black female bodies”? One thing she’s not wrong about is the way women’s bodies are viewed. I took a class in high school where we were assigned to find ads that sexualize females and let me tell you, I was done in 2 minutes because the images were so easy to find. People say “sex sells” but in reality, it’s “sexualized females sell”. I’ve seen an ad that consisted of 2 side by side images, one where the woman had her legs crossed with a closed jewelry box in front of her and in the other the man reveals a big diamond in the box, and the woman’s legs were uncrossed and slightly spread. Another ad for cologne, the bottle is held in between a topless woman’s breasts with her hands covering her nipples. Even burger king had an ad of a woman, mouth open, and about to bite into a phallic-shaped sandwich that was captioned “It’ll Blow your mind away” and the sandwich described as the “BK Super Seven Incher”.
         I feel like Hooks just keeps trying to bring slavery into this just because Beyonce is black, and then playing it off by adding in “girls, of all colors”. What I think is that Beyonce knew exactly what she was doing wearing that outfit. And not in the least sexualizing herself. It may be underwear but she’s literally wearing Granny panties that cover her up to her waist and a bra that doesn’t allow for cleavage to really show, plus a cover-up (despite the fact that it’s see-through). There is nothing “sexy” about what she’s dressed in. If she was dressed in a slinky bikini or lingerie that’s a different story, but a story she would be purposefully telling.

         3b (Quotation from Hooks): (Quote image on google doc)

         4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered this in my rant in question 2 and provided the evidence as to why I believe what I believe. But I don’t agree with his interpretation. I think he’s just trying to make Beyonce into a bad guy that condones underage sex when in reality I think she’s doing the opposite considering she is a grown, married woman that also has a baby in 2014.

         4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): (Quote image on google doc)

         5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument):

         I think Simmon’s understands it. First of all, he was completely bombarded by O’Reilly about Beyonce when he was actually there to talk about the book, and that’s not fair at all. But I’m happy with what he said when defending Beyonce because the facts are real. And he couldn’t have said it any better. (Quotes below) After all, he is a parent of two. If he’s not outraged by this because he understands it, then I don’t see that O’Reilly’s point is valid at all. Yes, there are girls and boys that don’t have “an amazing mother or ok father” but if they look up to someone like Beyonce then they know her values and they know exactly the meaning behind that song. A song written by a married woman and mother.

         5b (Quotation from Simmons): (Quote image on google doc)

         6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered 6a and 6b in #2 in which this article was my main focus for my answer. I think his interpretation (from the quote I used above) supported all the info I talked about in #2. I didn’t think it necessary to add any more to it.

         6b (Quotation from Berlatsky):

         “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”

         Reply

      3. My response to your feedback:

         Stephanie,
         M: Totally epic response–bravo!
         S: Thank you so much!
         M: My apologies and sympathy for the Plato text. Perhaps if we were in person I could have made the experience of reading this dialogue (remember, it’s a dialogue between an elderly philosopher and his boy lover–how fun!) a bit less painful, but alas…
         S: Haha! Who doesn’t love dialogue between an old philosopher and his boy lover?! But yes, I think I would have enjoyed it more if it was an in-person experience, I’d imagine it would be very similar to my Western Lit class when I read Beowulf and Dante’s Inferno.
         M: Anyway, I think your hard work reading paid off because you’re really grasping a good deal of Plato’s critique of mimesis in art. The only thing I’d say would be to go further with unpacking what you think Plato means by “truth”——and art’s role in revealing it. It occurs to me that he doesn’t really say much hear about the art he likes (the text is centered on his critique of art/poetry he doesn’t like) but it also seems that there’s enough here to glean what he hopes art will do (which maybe aligns him with Bell Hooks and O’Reilly in the debate about Beyonce).
         S: Thank you, I’m glad you think so! We did a lot of interpretation in my high school English class and focused on motifs, etc. So I may have had a slight advantage! And I agree that Bell Hooks and O’Reilly match Plato’s beliefs! I focused on that in Prompt #3!
         M: One note about Bell Hooks: she’s a woman——a black woman, no less, who is one of the most important figures in late 20th century intersectional (meaning race-charged) feminism. You can look her up if you want, but I just didn’t want you to leave this conversation thinking she’s just another white dude critiquing B. Her identity matters for thinking about her perspective (albeit part of her identity is that she’s also rather OLD now and views sexuality differently than subsequent generations of feminists).
         S: Haha, yea I 100% thought she was some dude hating on B. When I looked her up I was even more shocked by her response especially considering she wrote “Ain’t I a Woman?” and is all about Feminism. I think there’s also something about responding to the text without knowing who the speaker was because it keeps the response to it unbiased, but I still stand by what I said about her response and added more to it now that I know who she is and what she’s known for.
         M: Glad for your mini-research-paper-esque argument regarding sex in Beyonce’s work. I’m missing your reference to Berlatsky here (whose view I think might really resonate with yours); can you bring him into the mix a bit more?
         S: My bad, I confused myself and thought I wrote about him because he used a lot of the quotes I referenced, in his own work. One thing he said really stood out to me so I added that into my response for HW #3! And I agree about his views matching mine! I’m all about self-respect and positive body image, etc. I can see why O’Reilly and Hooks responded the way they did but I really think they were off base considering Beyonce’s history and all the factors revolving around that song. I mean honestly, they were acting like B was Miley Cyrus circa 2013.

         In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

         I think what Plato was trying to say about imitators is that they are in a way copying what those before them have done. For example, what he says about the couch, “the man at the third generation from nature”. I think this means that the first man to create a couch is “nature” and his son creating a couch is simply learning how, but the grandson (third generation) is now just imitating the original. At first I didn’t know if Plato would say imitative is good or bad, but I believe he believes it’s repetitive. As I read on I get more of the sense that he thinks it’s bad, although he didn’t outright say it was.
         I think he values original work more,work that speaks the truth. He calls painting deceitful, because it alters the truth of things. I think he believes that if the artists knew and understood the truth of what they’re going to base their work on, it would be less imitative that they’d be more serious.(pg 100)

         I think the best example of what Plato means is a video I once saw and I’ll attach the link to it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=litXW91UauE) But basically, this sketch artist has a person sit hidden from him and has them describe themself to the artist. The artist then draws what the person as they describe themself to him. He also has them interact with a second person and has them come in and describe the first person to him while he sketches that as well. In the end, he posts both descriptions of the same person side by side and shows it to the person he drew. He shows them what they believe is their true self (I think this represents the artists that draw things the way they see things aka what Plato is against). And he also shows them what really IS their true self (the description the stranger gave aka what Plato believes is truth). It can also be looked at in the opposite way. (I’m going to use Ms. X as a fill-in name for person 1 to eliminate confusion). What I mean by the opposite way is this: Ms. X described herself to the artist with what she believes she truly looks like. That description is a reflection of how she feels about herself on the inside. Something we can call her inner truth (aka what Plato thinks art should reflect to be considered true art.) But the description that the stranger gives of Ms. X is just the stranger’s version of the truth. Shaped to his liking. (aka what Plato stands against). It can be argued both ways but in the end, one thing remains the same and that’s Plato’s beliefs. 1. That art should speak the truth and nothing but the truth. And 2. Art should not be one individual person’s view of what the truth might be. The main thing that repeats is how much Plato values truth. He seems to believe that imitators don’t value it and that seems like a bad thing to him. He wants people to see art for what it really is, and he wants the artists to create the truth, in truth. He wants art to represent truth and for people to see that truth, but he believes in reality that all artists do is alter it. The key here is that he wants to conserve the truth, technically making him a conservative. This is a view very similar to O’Reilly and Hooks who want to conserve a young girl’s mind. More in this in the next response.

         What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of…

         I’m going to merge my response to #2, A, and B because I’ve got quite a bit to say regarding the articles in response to her video, what I think of her video, and also the Time cover. Let’s start with the article in regards to her video. In the article, they mention her reference to Monica Lewinsky and how there’s something political behind it. In my opinion, she was simply using it as a verb because there is nothing that precedes it or follows it that has any kind of political nature. At least, nothing other than sex. The lyrics literally are, “He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown…daddy didn’t bring the towel.” It’s pretty obvious that this statement is referring to the fact that her husband came on her dress and they didn’t have “the towel” to clean it up with. Some may argue that she could have used another name or she could have just said that “he came”, but I think the purpose of using “Monica Lewinski’s” name, is “scandal”. Her video in and of itself is scandalous whether it is her husband or not that is in the video. But, something being scandalous doesn’t always mean it’s a negative thing.
         “Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash” Any kind of sex caught on camera is considered scandalous regardless of the sanctity of marriage. The act, in itself, isn’t wrong or bad. The fact that it’s caught on camera or displayed publicly is seen as so. It’s considered a private thing. I don’t believe that Beyonce’s goal was to display her sex life as a negative thing or a bad influence on young girls. But, I’ll talk more about that later. Since her private sex life being displayed is considered “scandalous”, I believe she specifically used “Monica Lewinski’s” name due to its association with a scandal of its own. Specifically, a sex scandal. I don’t think she meant it as a political attack but IF she meant it as any kind of attack I think it’s simply the fact that she can make her husband cum and Hillary “can’t”, which could be considered the reason why her husband sought an affair in the first place.
         Going back to her video not being a bad thing or a bad influence on young girls; in the interview O’Reilly said, “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…Why would Beyonce do that?” I can see why O’Reilly would think that with teen pregnancy stats at the time, but he’s forgetting a couple of VERY important details.
         1. Beyonce is a grown-ass woman. Of course, she’s going to be having sex! She’s an adult! If she was a teenager, or even in her early 20’s, then okay… maybe he has a tiny point. I’m in no way condoning underage sex, but who are we to judge other people’s actions? Especially when we don’t know their stories…their history.
         2. She’s MARRIED. It’s not like she’s having sex with some guy she’s been dating for 2 weeks.
         It’s literally her HUSBAND in the video, not some strange man that could signify an affair.
         3. Keep this timeline in mind: They got married in 2008, had Blue Ivy in 2012, and this sex-heavy video was released in 2014. More on this below.

         As the timeline above mentions, her wedding was in 2008 that means she’s been married for 6 years when the video came out. Do you know how many marriages still have that much sex 6 years in AND with a 2-year-old? Not many I’m sure. Also, she has a child. I’m sure she is very well aware of the fact that her daughter and any future children will someday see this. As disturbing as it may be to see your parents all over each other like that, it doesn’t change the main thing: What love should look like. O’Reilly sees himself as “defending conservative family values.” But in my opinion, there are no values being broken. I think she’s showing those teenage girls what a healthy marriage should look like (minus the paparazzi). She’s showing them that even 6 years into a marriage, and with a baby, you can love each other so much that you can’t even keep your hands off each other for more than “45-minutes”. I don’t see anything wrong with that. In fact, that’s the kind of marriage many aspire to have!

         Now in regards to her Time cover photo, The keyword here is “time”. This cover was released shortly after her Partition video but we see a completely different side of Beyonce. I think this cover is a statement from her not about “colluding in the construction of herself as a slave”, but as a normal woman who has an innocent side. If you ask me, that quoted statement above is racist. She herself isn’t a slave and never was. She wasn’t around when slavery was a thing. Saying she’s “constructing herself as a slave” to me is the equivalent of calling her a slave. What really baffles me is the fact that Bell Hooks is saying these things in comparison to the works she’s known for. I mean she’s the one that wrote that famous piece, “Ain’t I A Woman?”. I mean she’s all about Black women and feminism; and the second Beyonce shows a glimpse of “Black Feminism” she gets attacked by the very same Bell Hooks who exhibits the complete opposite of Feminism in her reaction. Yes, I understand she’s a little bit older but age doesn’t define feminism. We’ve all fought hard to step away from being just a house-wife and child-bearer and now that Beyonce was showing what that looks like, Bell Hooks is acting like Beyonce broke the sacred rule of “she’s meant to be a house-wife and child-bearer/Southern Belle”. Not to mention that Bell Hooks doesn’t seem to know Beyonce. I think Beyonce is literally answering Bell Hooks question of “Ain’t I a Woman?” with “I’m 100% woman. I don’t know much about Beyonce, but from every single song I’ve seen or video of her speaking, or article about her; I know she has always been powerful and empowering. She speaks volumes to women (and men too). People worship her words because they’re true and help many through tough things. I mean her songs alone speak louder than anything. “Survivor, Single Ladies, Lemonade”. Regardless of what she goes through she comes out strong. She would never make herself look weak or “owned” unless she had the purpose and intention to appear that way. But what I think her image in Time shows, is that regardless of her sensual side, she has an innocent and ladylike side. A side she’s always had regardless of the “time” that has passed. To conclude, I think Berlatsky said it perfectly, “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”; taking us two steps back in feminism.

         3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):

         I can’t even begin to believe that she said “a little girl we can lust after” or that she brought child abuse into the picture by referring to Woody Allen. Why do we “have to” draw that connection to “enslaved black female bodies”? One thing she’s not wrong about is the way women’s bodies are viewed. I took a class in high school where we were assigned to find ads that sexualize females and let me tell you, I was done in 2 minutes because the images were so easy to find. People say “sex sells” but in reality, it’s “sexualized females sell”. I’ve seen an ad that consisted of 2 side by side images, one where the woman had her legs crossed with a closed jewelry box in front of her and in the other the man reveals a big diamond in the box, and the woman’s legs were uncrossed and slightly spread. Another ad for cologne, the bottle is held in between a topless woman’s breasts with her hands covering her nipples. Even burger king had an ad of a woman, mouth open, and about to bite into a phallic-shaped sandwich that was captioned “It’ll Blow your mind away” and the sandwich described as the “BK Super Seven Incher”.
         I feel like Hooks just keeps trying to bring slavery into this just because Beyonce is black, and then playing it off by adding in “girls, of all colors”. What I think is that Beyonce knew exactly what she was doing wearing that outfit. And not in the least sexualizing herself. It may be underwear but she’s literally wearing Granny panties that cover her up to her waist and a bra that doesn’t allow for cleavage to really show, plus a cover-up (despite the fact that it’s see-through). There is nothing “sexy” about what she’s dressed in. If she was dressed in a slinky bikini or lingerie that’s a different story, but a story she would be purposefully telling.

         3b (Quotation from Hooks): (Quote image on google doc)

         4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered this in my rant in question 2 and provided the evidence as to why I believe what I believe. But I don’t agree with his interpretation. I think he’s just trying to make Beyonce into a bad guy that condones underage sex when in reality I think she’s doing the opposite considering she is a grown, married woman that also has a baby in 2014.

         4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): (Quote image on google doc)

         5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument):

         I think Simmon’s understands it. First of all, he was completely bombarded by O’Reilly about Beyonce when he was actually there to talk about the book, and that’s not fair at all. But I’m happy with what he said when defending Beyonce because the facts are real. And he couldn’t have said it any better. (Quotes below) After all, he is a parent of two. If he’s not outraged by this because he understands it, then I don’t see that O’Reilly’s point is valid at all. Yes, there are girls and boys that don’t have “an amazing mother or ok father” but if they look up to someone like Beyonce then they know her values and they know exactly the meaning behind that song. A song written by a married woman and mother.

         5b (Quotation from Simmons): (Quote image on google doc)

         6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered 6a and 6b in #2 in which this article was my main focus for my answer. I think his interpretation (from the quote I used above) supported all the info I talked about in #2. I didn’t think it necessary to add any more to it.

         6b (Quotation from Berlatsky):

         “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”

         Reply

      4. My response to your feedback:

         Stephanie,
         M: Totally epic response–bravo!
         S: Thank you so much!
         M: My apologies and sympathy for the Plato text. Perhaps if we were in person I could have made the experience of reading this dialogue (remember, it’s a dialogue between an elderly philosopher and his boy lover–how fun!) a bit less painful, but alas…
         S: Haha! Who doesn’t love dialogue between an old philosopher and his boy lover?! But yes, I think I would have enjoyed it more if it was an in-person experience, I’d imagine it would be very similar to my Western Lit class when I read Beowulf and Dante’s Inferno.
         M: Anyway, I think your hard work reading paid off because you’re really grasping a good deal of Plato’s critique of mimesis in art. The only thing I’d say would be to go further with unpacking what you think Plato means by “truth”——and art’s role in revealing it. It occurs to me that he doesn’t really say much hear about the art he likes (the text is centered on his critique of art/poetry he doesn’t like) but it also seems that there’s enough here to glean what he hopes art will do (which maybe aligns him with Bell Hooks and O’Reilly in the debate about Beyonce).
         S: Thank you, I’m glad you think so! We did a lot of interpretation in my high school English class and focused on motifs, etc. So I may have had a slight advantage! And I agree that Bell Hooks and O’Reilly match Plato’s beliefs! I focused on that in Prompt #3!
         M: One note about Bell Hooks: she’s a woman——a black woman, no less, who is one of the most important figures in late 20th century intersectional (meaning race-charged) feminism. You can look her up if you want, but I just didn’t want you to leave this conversation thinking she’s just another white dude critiquing B. Her identity matters for thinking about her perspective (albeit part of her identity is that she’s also rather OLD now and views sexuality differently than subsequent generations of feminists).
         S: Haha, yea I 100% thought she was some dude hating on B. When I looked her up I was even more shocked by her response especially considering she wrote “Ain’t I a Woman?” and is all about Feminism. I think there’s also something about responding to the text without knowing who the speaker was because it keeps the response to it unbiased, but I still stand by what I said about her response and added more to it now that I know who she is and what she’s known for.
         M: Glad for your mini-research-paper-esque argument regarding sex in Beyonce’s work. I’m missing your reference to Berlatsky here (whose view I think might really resonate with yours); can you bring him into the mix a bit more?
         S: My bad, I confused myself and thought I wrote about him because he used a lot of the quotes I referenced, in his own work. One thing he said really stood out to me so I added that into my response for HW #3! And I agree about his views matching mine! I’m all about self-respect and positive body image, etc. I can see why O’Reilly and Hooks responded the way they did but I really think they were off base considering Beyonce’s history and all the factors revolving around that song. I mean honestly, they were acting like B was Miley Cyrus circa 2013.

         In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

         I think what Plato was trying to say about imitators is that they are in a way copying what those before them have done. For example, what he says about the couch, “the man at the third generation from nature”. I think this means that the first man to create a couch is “nature” and his son creating a couch is simply learning how, but the grandson (third generation) is now just imitating the original. At first I didn’t know if Plato would say imitative is good or bad, but I believe he believes it’s repetitive. As I read on I get more of the sense that he thinks it’s bad, although he didn’t outright say it was.
         I think he values original work more,work that speaks the truth. He calls painting deceitful, because it alters the truth of things. I think he believes that if the artists knew and understood the truth of what they’re going to base their work on, it would be less imitative that they’d be more serious.(pg 100)

         I think the best example of what Plato means is a video I once saw and I’ll attach the link to it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=litXW91UauE) But basically, this sketch artist has a person sit hidden from him and has them describe themself to the artist. The artist then draws what the person as they describe themself to him. He also has them interact with a second person and has them come in and describe the first person to him while he sketches that as well. In the end, he posts both descriptions of the same person side by side and shows it to the person he drew. He shows them what they believe is their true self (I think this represents the artists that draw things the way they see things aka what Plato is against). And he also shows them what really IS their true self (the description the stranger gave aka what Plato believes is truth). It can also be looked at in the opposite way. (I’m going to use Ms. X as a fill-in name for person 1 to eliminate confusion). What I mean by the opposite way is this: Ms. X described herself to the artist with what she believes she truly looks like. That description is a reflection of how she feels about herself on the inside. Something we can call her inner truth (aka what Plato thinks art should reflect to be considered true art.) But the description that the stranger gives of Ms. X is just the stranger’s version of the truth. Shaped to his liking. (aka what Plato stands against). It can be argued both ways but in the end, one thing remains the same and that’s Plato’s beliefs. 1. That art should speak the truth and nothing but the truth. And 2. Art should not be one individual person’s view of what the truth might be. The main thing that repeats is how much Plato values truth. He seems to believe that imitators don’t value it and that seems like a bad thing to him. He wants people to see art for what it really is, and he wants the artists to create the truth, in truth. He wants art to represent truth and for people to see that truth, but he believes in reality that all artists do is alter it. The key here is that he wants to conserve the truth, technically making him a conservative. This is a view very similar to O’Reilly and Hooks who want to conserve a young girl’s mind. More in this in the next response.

         What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of…

         I’m going to merge my response to #2, A, and B because I’ve got quite a bit to say regarding the articles in response to her video, what I think of her video, and also the Time cover. Let’s start with the article in regards to her video. In the article, they mention her reference to Monica Lewinsky and how there’s something political behind it. In my opinion, she was simply using it as a verb because there is nothing that precedes it or follows it that has any kind of political nature. At least, nothing other than sex. The lyrics literally are, “He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown…daddy didn’t bring the towel.” It’s pretty obvious that this statement is referring to the fact that her husband came on her dress and they didn’t have “the towel” to clean it up with. Some may argue that she could have used another name or she could have just said that “he came”, but I think the purpose of using “Monica Lewinski’s” name, is “scandal”. Her video in and of itself is scandalous whether it is her husband or not that is in the video. But, something being scandalous doesn’t always mean it’s a negative thing.
         “Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash” Any kind of sex caught on camera is considered scandalous regardless of the sanctity of marriage. The act, in itself, isn’t wrong or bad. The fact that it’s caught on camera or displayed publicly is seen as so. It’s considered a private thing. I don’t believe that Beyonce’s goal was to display her sex life as a negative thing or a bad influence on young girls. But, I’ll talk more about that later. Since her private sex life being displayed is considered “scandalous”, I believe she specifically used “Monica Lewinski’s” name due to its association with a scandal of its own. Specifically, a sex scandal. I don’t think she meant it as a political attack but IF she meant it as any kind of attack I think it’s simply the fact that she can make her husband cum and Hillary “can’t”, which could be considered the reason why her husband sought an affair in the first place.
         Going back to her video not being a bad thing or a bad influence on young girls; in the interview O’Reilly said, “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…Why would Beyonce do that?” I can see why O’Reilly would think that with teen pregnancy stats at the time, but he’s forgetting a couple of VERY important details.
         1. Beyonce is a grown-ass woman. Of course, she’s going to be having sex! She’s an adult! If she was a teenager, or even in her early 20’s, then okay… maybe he has a tiny point. I’m in no way condoning underage sex, but who are we to judge other people’s actions? Especially when we don’t know their stories…their history.
         2. She’s MARRIED. It’s not like she’s having sex with some guy she’s been dating for 2 weeks.
         It’s literally her HUSBAND in the video, not some strange man that could signify an affair.
         3. Keep this timeline in mind: They got married in 2008, had Blue Ivy in 2012, and this sex-heavy video was released in 2014. More on this below.

         As the timeline above mentions, her wedding was in 2008 that means she’s been married for 6 years when the video came out. Do you know how many marriages still have that much sex 6 years in AND with a 2-year-old? Not many I’m sure. Also, she has a child. I’m sure she is very well aware of the fact that her daughter and any future children will someday see this. As disturbing as it may be to see your parents all over each other like that, it doesn’t change the main thing: What love should look like. O’Reilly sees himself as “defending conservative family values.” But in my opinion, there are no values being broken. I think she’s showing those teenage girls what a healthy marriage should look like (minus the paparazzi). She’s showing them that even 6 years into a marriage, and with a baby, you can love each other so much that you can’t even keep your hands off each other for more than “45-minutes”. I don’t see anything wrong with that. In fact, that’s the kind of marriage many aspire to have!

         Now in regards to her Time cover photo, The keyword here is “time”. This cover was released shortly after her Partition video but we see a completely different side of Beyonce. I think this cover is a statement from her not about “colluding in the construction of herself as a slave”, but as a normal woman who has an innocent side. If you ask me, that quoted statement above is racist. She herself isn’t a slave and never was. She wasn’t around when slavery was a thing. Saying she’s “constructing herself as a slave” to me is the equivalent of calling her a slave. What really baffles me is the fact that Bell Hooks is saying these things in comparison to the works she’s known for. I mean she’s the one that wrote that famous piece, “Ain’t I A Woman?”. I mean she’s all about Black women and feminism; and the second Beyonce shows a glimpse of “Black Feminism” she gets attacked by the very same Bell Hooks who exhibits the complete opposite of Feminism in her reaction. Yes, I understand she’s a little bit older but age doesn’t define feminism. We’ve all fought hard to step away from being just a house-wife and child-bearer and now that Beyonce was showing what that looks like, Bell Hooks is acting like Beyonce broke the sacred rule of “she’s meant to be a house-wife and child-bearer/Southern Belle”. Not to mention that Bell Hooks doesn’t seem to know Beyonce. I think Beyonce is literally answering Bell Hooks question of “Ain’t I a Woman?” with “I’m 100% woman. I don’t know much about Beyonce, but from every single song I’ve seen or video of her speaking, or article about her; I know she has always been powerful and empowering. She speaks volumes to women (and men too). People worship her words because they’re true and help many through tough things. I mean her songs alone speak louder than anything. “Survivor, Single Ladies, Lemonade”. Regardless of what she goes through she comes out strong. She would never make herself look weak or “owned” unless she had the purpose and intention to appear that way. But what I think her image in Time shows, is that regardless of her sensual side, she has an innocent and ladylike side. A side she’s always had regardless of the “time” that has passed. To conclude, I think Berlatsky said it perfectly, “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”; taking us two steps back in feminism.

         3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):

         I can’t even begin to believe that she said “a little girl we can lust after” or that she brought child abuse into the picture by referring to Woody Allen. Why do we “have to” draw that connection to “enslaved black female bodies”? One thing she’s not wrong about is the way women’s bodies are viewed. I took a class in high school where we were assigned to find ads that sexualize females and let me tell you, I was done in 2 minutes because the images were so easy to find. People say “sex sells” but in reality, it’s “sexualized females sell”. I’ve seen an ad that consisted of 2 side by side images, one where the woman had her legs crossed with a closed jewelry box in front of her and in the other the man reveals a big diamond in the box, and the woman’s legs were uncrossed and slightly spread. Another ad for cologne, the bottle is held in between a topless woman’s breasts with her hands covering her nipples. Even burger king had an ad of a woman, mouth open, and about to bite into a phallic-shaped sandwich that was captioned “It’ll Blow your mind away” and the sandwich described as the “BK Super Seven Incher”.
         I feel like Hooks just keeps trying to bring slavery into this just because Beyonce is black, and then playing it off by adding in “girls, of all colors”. What I think is that Beyonce knew exactly what she was doing wearing that outfit. And not in the least sexualizing herself. It may be underwear but she’s literally wearing Granny panties that cover her up to her waist and a bra that doesn’t allow for cleavage to really show, plus a cover-up (despite the fact that it’s see-through). There is nothing “sexy” about what she’s dressed in. If she was dressed in a slinky bikini or lingerie that’s a different story, but a story she would be purposefully telling.

         3b (Quotation from Hooks): (Quote image on google doc)

         4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered this in my rant in question 2 and provided the evidence as to why I believe what I believe. But I don’t agree with his interpretation. I think he’s just trying to make Beyonce into a bad guy that condones underage sex when in reality I think she’s doing the opposite considering she is a grown, married woman that also has a baby in 2014.

         4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): (Quote image on google doc)

         5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument):

         I think Simmon’s understands it. First of all, he was completely bombarded by O’Reilly about Beyonce when he was actually there to talk about the book, and that’s not fair at all. But I’m happy with what he said when defending Beyonce because the facts are real. And he couldn’t have said it any better. (Quotes below) After all, he is a parent of two. If he’s not outraged by this because he understands it, then I don’t see that O’Reilly’s point is valid at all. Yes, there are girls and boys that don’t have “an amazing mother or ok father” but if they look up to someone like Beyonce then they know her values and they know exactly the meaning behind that song. A song written by a married woman and mother.

         5b (Quotation from Simmons): (Quote image on google doc)

         6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered 6a and 6b in #2 in which this article was my main focus for my answer. I think his interpretation (from the quote I used above) supported all the info I talked about in #2. I didn’t think it necessary to add any more to it.

         6b (Quotation from Berlatsky):

         “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”

         Reply

      5. My response to your feedback:

         Stephanie,
         M: Totally epic response–bravo!
         S: Thank you so much!
         M: My apologies and sympathy for the Plato text. Perhaps if we were in person I could have made the experience of reading this dialogue (remember, it’s a dialogue between an elderly philosopher and his boy lover–how fun!) a bit less painful, but alas…
         S: Haha! Who doesn’t love dialogue between an old philosopher and his boy lover?! But yes, I think I would have enjoyed it more if it was an in-person experience, I’d imagine it would be very similar to my Western Lit class when I read Beowulf and Dante’s Inferno.
         M: Anyway, I think your hard work reading paid off because you’re really grasping a good deal of Plato’s critique of mimesis in art. The only thing I’d say would be to go further with unpacking what you think Plato means by “truth”——and art’s role in revealing it. It occurs to me that he doesn’t really say much hear about the art he likes (the text is centered on his critique of art/poetry he doesn’t like) but it also seems that there’s enough here to glean what he hopes art will do (which maybe aligns him with Bell Hooks and O’Reilly in the debate about Beyonce).
         S: Thank you, I’m glad you think so! We did a lot of interpretation in my high school English class and focused on motifs, etc. So I may have had a slight advantage! And I agree that Bell Hooks and O’Reilly match Plato’s beliefs! I focused on that in Prompt #3!
         M: One note about Bell Hooks: she’s a woman——a black woman, no less, who is one of the most important figures in late 20th century intersectional (meaning race-charged) feminism. You can look her up if you want, but I just didn’t want you to leave this conversation thinking she’s just another white dude critiquing B. Her identity matters for thinking about her perspective (albeit part of her identity is that she’s also rather OLD now and views sexuality differently than subsequent generations of feminists).
         S: Haha, yea I 100% thought she was some dude hating on B. When I looked her up I was even more shocked by her response especially considering she wrote “Ain’t I a Woman?” and is all about Feminism. I think there’s also something about responding to the text without knowing who the speaker was because it keeps the response to it unbiased, but I still stand by what I said about her response and added more to it now that I know who she is and what she’s known for.
         M: Glad for your mini-research-paper-esque argument regarding sex in Beyonce’s work. I’m missing your reference to Berlatsky here (whose view I think might really resonate with yours); can you bring him into the mix a bit more?
         S: My bad, I confused myself and thought I wrote about him because he used a lot of the quotes I referenced, in his own work. One thing he said really stood out to me so I added that into my response for HW #3! And I agree about his views matching mine! I’m all about self-respect and positive body image, etc. I can see why O’Reilly and Hooks responded the way they did but I really think they were off base considering Beyonce’s history and all the factors revolving around that song. I mean honestly, they were acting like B was Miley Cyrus circa 2013.

         In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

         I think what Plato was trying to say about imitators is that they are in a way copying what those before them have done. For example, what he says about the couch, “the man at the third generation from nature”. I think this means that the first man to create a couch is “nature” and his son creating a couch is simply learning how, but the grandson (third generation) is now just imitating the original. At first I didn’t know if Plato would say imitative is good or bad, but I believe he believes it’s repetitive. As I read on I get more of the sense that he thinks it’s bad, although he didn’t outright say it was.
         I think he values original work more,work that speaks the truth. He calls painting deceitful, because it alters the truth of things. I think he believes that if the artists knew and understood the truth of what they’re going to base their work on, it would be less imitative that they’d be more serious.(pg 100)

         I think the best example of what Plato means is a video I once saw and I’ll attach the link to it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=litXW91UauE) But basically, this sketch artist has a person sit hidden from him and has them describe themself to the artist. The artist then draws what the person as they describe themself to him. He also has them interact with a second person and has them come in and describe the first person to him while he sketches that as well. In the end, he posts both descriptions of the same person side by side and shows it to the person he drew. He shows them what they believe is their true self (I think this represents the artists that draw things the way they see things aka what Plato is against). And he also shows them what really IS their true self (the description the stranger gave aka what Plato believes is truth). It can also be looked at in the opposite way. (I’m going to use Ms. X as a fill-in name for person 1 to eliminate confusion). What I mean by the opposite way is this: Ms. X described herself to the artist with what she believes she truly looks like. That description is a reflection of how she feels about herself on the inside. Something we can call her inner truth (aka what Plato thinks art should reflect to be considered true art.) But the description that the stranger gives of Ms. X is just the stranger’s version of the truth. Shaped to his liking. (aka what Plato stands against). It can be argued both ways but in the end, one thing remains the same and that’s Plato’s beliefs. 1. That art should speak the truth and nothing but the truth. And 2. Art should not be one individual person’s view of what the truth might be. The main thing that repeats is how much Plato values truth. He seems to believe that imitators don’t value it and that seems like a bad thing to him. He wants people to see art for what it really is, and he wants the artists to create the truth, in truth. He wants art to represent truth and for people to see that truth, but he believes in reality that all artists do is alter it. The key here is that he wants to conserve the truth, technically making him a conservative. This is a view very similar to O’Reilly and Hooks who want to conserve a young girl’s mind. More in this in the next response.

         What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of…

         I’m going to merge my response to #2, A, and B because I’ve got quite a bit to say regarding the articles in response to her video, what I think of her video, and also the Time cover. Let’s start with the article in regards to her video. In the article, they mention her reference to Monica Lewinsky and how there’s something political behind it. In my opinion, she was simply using it as a verb because there is nothing that precedes it or follows it that has any kind of political nature. At least, nothing other than sex. The lyrics literally are, “He Monica Lewinski’d all on my gown…daddy didn’t bring the towel.” It’s pretty obvious that this statement is referring to the fact that her husband came on her dress and they didn’t have “the towel” to clean it up with. Some may argue that she could have used another name or she could have just said that “he came”, but I think the purpose of using “Monica Lewinski’s” name, is “scandal”. Her video in and of itself is scandalous whether it is her husband or not that is in the video. But, something being scandalous doesn’t always mean it’s a negative thing.
         “Over there I swear I saw them cameras flash” Any kind of sex caught on camera is considered scandalous regardless of the sanctity of marriage. The act, in itself, isn’t wrong or bad. The fact that it’s caught on camera or displayed publicly is seen as so. It’s considered a private thing. I don’t believe that Beyonce’s goal was to display her sex life as a negative thing or a bad influence on young girls. But, I’ll talk more about that later. Since her private sex life being displayed is considered “scandalous”, I believe she specifically used “Monica Lewinski’s” name due to its association with a scandal of its own. Specifically, a sex scandal. I don’t think she meant it as a political attack but IF she meant it as any kind of attack I think it’s simply the fact that she can make her husband cum and Hillary “can’t”, which could be considered the reason why her husband sought an affair in the first place.
         Going back to her video not being a bad thing or a bad influence on young girls; in the interview O’Reilly said, “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies…Why would Beyonce do that?” I can see why O’Reilly would think that with teen pregnancy stats at the time, but he’s forgetting a couple of VERY important details.
         1. Beyonce is a grown-ass woman. Of course, she’s going to be having sex! She’s an adult! If she was a teenager, or even in her early 20’s, then okay… maybe he has a tiny point. I’m in no way condoning underage sex, but who are we to judge other people’s actions? Especially when we don’t know their stories…their history.
         2. She’s MARRIED. It’s not like she’s having sex with some guy she’s been dating for 2 weeks.
         It’s literally her HUSBAND in the video, not some strange man that could signify an affair.
         3. Keep this timeline in mind: They got married in 2008, had Blue Ivy in 2012, and this sex-heavy video was released in 2014. More on this below.

         As the timeline above mentions, her wedding was in 2008 that means she’s been married for 6 years when the video came out. Do you know how many marriages still have that much sex 6 years in AND with a 2-year-old? Not many I’m sure. Also, she has a child. I’m sure she is very well aware of the fact that her daughter and any future children will someday see this. As disturbing as it may be to see your parents all over each other like that, it doesn’t change the main thing: What love should look like. O’Reilly sees himself as “defending conservative family values.” But in my opinion, there are no values being broken. I think she’s showing those teenage girls what a healthy marriage should look like (minus the paparazzi). She’s showing them that even 6 years into a marriage, and with a baby, you can love each other so much that you can’t even keep your hands off each other for more than “45-minutes”. I don’t see anything wrong with that. In fact, that’s the kind of marriage many aspire to have!

         Now in regards to her Time cover photo, The keyword here is “time”. This cover was released shortly after her Partition video but we see a completely different side of Beyonce. I think this cover is a statement from her not about “colluding in the construction of herself as a slave”, but as a normal woman who has an innocent side. If you ask me, that quoted statement above is racist. She herself isn’t a slave and never was. She wasn’t around when slavery was a thing. Saying she’s “constructing herself as a slave” to me is the equivalent of calling her a slave. What really baffles me is the fact that Bell Hooks is saying these things in comparison to the works she’s known for. I mean she’s the one that wrote that famous piece, “Ain’t I A Woman?”. I mean she’s all about Black women and feminism; and the second Beyonce shows a glimpse of “Black Feminism” she gets attacked by the very same Bell Hooks who exhibits the complete opposite of Feminism in her reaction. Yes, I understand she’s a little bit older but age doesn’t define feminism. We’ve all fought hard to step away from being just a house-wife and child-bearer and now that Beyonce was showing what that looks like, Bell Hooks is acting like Beyonce broke the sacred rule of “she’s meant to be a house-wife and child-bearer/Southern Belle”. Not to mention that Bell Hooks doesn’t seem to know Beyonce. I think Beyonce is literally answering Bell Hooks question of “Ain’t I a Woman?” with “I’m 100% woman. I don’t know much about Beyonce, but from every single song I’ve seen or video of her speaking, or article about her; I know she has always been powerful and empowering. She speaks volumes to women (and men too). People worship her words because they’re true and help many through tough things. I mean her songs alone speak louder than anything. “Survivor, Single Ladies, Lemonade”. Regardless of what she goes through she comes out strong. She would never make herself look weak or “owned” unless she had the purpose and intention to appear that way. But what I think her image in Time shows, is that regardless of her sensual side, she has an innocent and ladylike side. A side she’s always had regardless of the “time” that has passed. To conclude, I think Berlatsky said it perfectly, “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”; taking us two steps back in feminism.

         3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):

         I can’t even begin to believe that she said “a little girl we can lust after” or that she brought child abuse into the picture by referring to Woody Allen. Why do we “have to” draw that connection to “enslaved black female bodies”? One thing she’s not wrong about is the way women’s bodies are viewed. I took a class in high school where we were assigned to find ads that sexualize females and let me tell you, I was done in 2 minutes because the images were so easy to find. People say “sex sells” but in reality, it’s “sexualized females sell”. I’ve seen an ad that consisted of 2 side by side images, one where the woman had her legs crossed with a closed jewelry box in front of her and in the other the man reveals a big diamond in the box, and the woman’s legs were uncrossed and slightly spread. Another ad for cologne, the bottle is held in between a topless woman’s breasts with her hands covering her nipples. Even burger king had an ad of a woman, mouth open, and about to bite into a phallic-shaped sandwich that was captioned “It’ll Blow your mind away” and the sandwich described as the “BK Super Seven Incher”.
         I feel like Hooks just keeps trying to bring slavery into this just because Beyonce is black, and then playing it off by adding in “girls, of all colors”. What I think is that Beyonce knew exactly what she was doing wearing that outfit. And not in the least sexualizing herself. It may be underwear but she’s literally wearing Granny panties that cover her up to her waist and a bra that doesn’t allow for cleavage to really show, plus a cover-up (despite the fact that it’s see-through). There is nothing “sexy” about what she’s dressed in. If she was dressed in a slinky bikini or lingerie that’s a different story, but a story she would be purposefully telling.

         3b (Quotation from Hooks): (Quote image on google doc)

         4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered this in my rant in question 2 and provided the evidence as to why I believe what I believe. But I don’t agree with his interpretation. I think he’s just trying to make Beyonce into a bad guy that condones underage sex when in reality I think she’s doing the opposite considering she is a grown, married woman that also has a baby in 2014.

         4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): (Quote image on google doc)

         5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument):

         I think Simmon’s understands it. First of all, he was completely bombarded by O’Reilly about Beyonce when he was actually there to talk about the book, and that’s not fair at all. But I’m happy with what he said when defending Beyonce because the facts are real. And he couldn’t have said it any better. (Quotes below) After all, he is a parent of two. If he’s not outraged by this because he understands it, then I don’t see that O’Reilly’s point is valid at all. Yes, there are girls and boys that don’t have “an amazing mother or ok father” but if they look up to someone like Beyonce then they know her values and they know exactly the meaning behind that song. A song written by a married woman and mother.

         5b (Quotation from Simmons): (Quote image on google doc)

         6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):

         I believe I answered 6a and 6b in #2 in which this article was my main focus for my answer. I think his interpretation (from the quote I used above) supported all the info I talked about in #2. I didn’t think it necessary to add any more to it.

         6b (Quotation from Berlatsky):

         “…intentionally or not, they both [O’Reilly and hooks] end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”

         Reply

9. 1.
   I think Plato believes the imitative aspect of art is bad because he believes an “imitator knows nothing worth mentioning about what he imitates” and considers any art like this as not serious and just “a kind of play.” Since this art is considered unwise, Plato feels it is dangerous with the influence it can hold and talks about how in reading an epic where a man is seen admirably and praised when lamenting when in reality he feels a man takes pride in bearing the weight and keeping quiet. This contradiction means that it could be influencing everything from comedy to even views on sex in a manner not congruent with reality. However, since he is charmed by art like this he does welcome any arguments for this art and I think he does feel like it can be a vehicle for “good” knowledge much like philosophy does.

   2.
   Beyoncé’s “Partition” is an interpretation of her own sexual/romantic relationship and relationship with sex itself. She sings about her and probably her husband having sex in the back of a limo while also lusting for him where she says how she “just wanna be the girl [he] likes.” All of this can be seen as direct opposition of being powerful with Beyoncé even acknowledging it by asking the driver of her limo to “roll up the partition” so they don’t see “Yoncé on her knees.” Another acknowledgement comes directly from the French being spoken near the end of the song where it says men think feminists hate sex but it’s something women love and it’s natural to love it. Beyoncé is saying she loves sex with her husband and it’s okay to want to even want to pursue it and that doesn’t affect your value as a woman.

   3a:
   Bell hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé is that Beyoncé is stripping away the humanity of black women and portraying them as “little girls we can lust over” which feeds into our “imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchal” society’s constant dehumanization of them. Bell hooks feels this is anti-feminist and especially harmful with how it can impact young girls.
   3b:
   “It’s interesting to think about ‘let’s take the image of this super rich, very powerful black female and use it in the service of imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.’”

   4a:
   Bill O’Reilly interprets Beyoncé’s work as glorification of sex that will directly impact all the teenage girls that look up to her which could lead to unwanted pregnancies and “fractured families.”
   4b:
   “She puts out a new album with a video that glorifies having sex in the back of a limousine. Teenage girls look up to Beyoncé, particularly girls of color. She is an idol to them. I’m saying why on earth would this woman do that?”
   5a:
   Russel Simmons sees the value in Beyoncé’s art because he feels it is reflective of our society and if we want the art changed, we need that change in society first.
   5b:
   “I think the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell—to say things that people are inspired by. […] And so when an artist expresses something that’s sexual in music, it is a reflection of our reality.”

   6a:
   Noah Berlatsky interprets Beyoncé’s video as something that is self-aware of its race politics with how she is shown as powerful while linking her to imagery of old white wealth. He feels the conversation about Beyoncé in particular has ignored Beyoncé as a person herself and turned her into a talking point without giving her room to offer her own critique.
   6b:
   “This video is a fantasy about steamy married monogamous sex, which works deliberately to make O’Reilly’s conservative values look sexy and illicit. It’s also a re-imagining of black female eroticism as linked to power rather than subservience, which turns hooks’s respectability politics into a self-aware sensual tease.”

   Reply

10. Throughout the passages Plato writes about the, “imitative aspect of art” meaning that artists are more interested in replicating/ imitating art/items then keeping its /the objects natural integrity. Plato wanted artists to be masterful and knowledgeable in their crafts and with virtue. I do not agree with Plato as art comes in many mediums which are all entertaining or can be. Not everything has to feel repetitive,cliche and trite. From my own personal beliefs, I can think about the black art moments, such as The Black Art Moment with Amiri Barka and The Art Hoe collective. Without these movements we would not be in positions that we are today in regards to black pride, there would be no livelihood and no legacy. This gave us equity and visibility we would not have otherwise, in a medium that is more so accessible. Yes it can be mundane like Plato describes but it doesn’t have to be. It can be riveting,inspiring, provocative, etc. It’s quite comical that in today’s day in age his whole “career” in philosophy is considered outdated and blase. This passage is also a dialogue meaning from two different voices/viewpoints versus what would be a poem usually only having one viewpoint/perspective. Both have different elements/mediums with a central idea. Just because something is not your cup of te a does not invalidate its worth,creativity or message. You do not have to be well versed in something to want to create or be able to create or be taken seriously.
    Beyonce’s work has always been an ode to herself and the image she has created for herself in the media. Beyonce has had different imagery and different styles as her career has progressed overtime. Beyonce has shown that she is multifaceted and talented within her signing and performances. I find it interesting how Beyonce sung partition, which a partition divides and separates. And in her time photo she is wearing a” partition” by sheer shirt and white undergarments which the white can represent purity. But she is still “nude” while being covered. To a lesser degree, she speaks to femininity and black femininity in a sex positive way. In regards to arts role in society it will always be debated as respectability politics, white supremacy, the patriarchy and capitalism are always determining factors.
    3a Hooks felt that the cover was disrespectful to the black female image. The image puts the power in males for the male gaze and strips Beyonce of her autonomy. She also believes that art should not uphold white supremacy and capitalism. Also that Beyonce’s desirability is built upon her wealth. Ms. Hooks questions why the media portrays and displays certain types of images in regards to black women. Being overtly sexual is anti-feminist and unfavorable in her viewpoint.
    3b.”….You are not going to destroy this imperialist,white supremacist capitalist, patriarchy by creating your own version of it…..” “I actually feel like the major assault on feminism in our society has come from visual media from television and videos. Do we even know of any man , as of late that has come out on some tirade against feminism?…”

    4a. O’Reilly believes that artists have to be role models to the audience/viewer, i.e. Beyonce. Specifically, within the black community so promoting sex is shameful due to the stigma and the cyclical broken homes it creates via unwanted pregnancy’s, especially for children/teenagers. (“Apparently sex ed and contraceptives aren’t also effective in unwanted pregnancies?-Me”)

    4b.”…. Worth about $350 million. She puts out a new album with a video that glorifies having sex in the back of a limousine. Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularity girls of color.”…. “Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies, which we will deal with in a moment,not with you, but in another segment, and fractured families, why Beyonce do that?”

    5a. Simmon’s believes that throughout history artist always spoke for the people even if the topic was controversial. Artists have free range of topics to talk about even if it reflects something controversial as sex. And if there’s an issue with the topic they society has to be changed/challenged.

    5b.” Yes. I kind of think that artist throughout history, poets throughout history have been criticized for sharing what’s on people’s mind and I don’t think it’s any different now. I think for thousands of years, hundred of years-“… “– I think the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell- to say things that people are inspired by. … ” If we want that reality changed, then we have to do things that affect the core.”

    6a. Berlatsky’s beliefs bring both O’Reillys and Hooks viewpoints about Beyonce’s status and her need to shelter children and not expose them to sex in regards to young poc/black girls and then deconstructs those ideologies. In addition of stripping her of agency as an artist.

    6b. ” But intentionally or not, they both end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”… ” O’Reillly and Hooks share one more point of critical agreement: They both seem unable, or unwilling, to consider Beyonce as an artist.”

    No one gave Beyonce her agency in regards to HER OWN SELF EXPRESSION. The only one who came close was Simmon’s due to the fact that he has ties in the hip hop community and he was also only on the show to promote his book. You can’t plug your book if you’re speaking about someone else’s body/art. Everyone has a platform and following yet no one reached out to Beyonce for commentary. Not that she would answer -probably. Partition also was co written with many men, so why aren’t the men being held responsible for the lyrics as well? In addition m”Blow” is a more explicit sexual song where only Beyonce receives sexual gratification, on the same exact album, so why doesn’t anyone pick this song to be angry about, if they want to suppress blatant black female sexuality?

    Reply

    1. Aravis,
       I really appreciate your engaged critique of Plato’s work here and think you are right to point out the limitations of his views on “imitative” art. I’m also compelled by your references to Baraka and the Black Art movement and the various forms of “equity and visibility” that such work has given its audiences (and I assume you’re referring here largely but not nocessarily exclusively to audiences of color). Can I suggest that we try to connect this thought to the flipside of Plato–the side of his thought that thinks good art ought to do something more than simply “imitate” reality. It seems that he thinks good art has certain effects on its viewers–and, in this regard, it’s possible that Baraka, Art Hoe, and the BAM share an affinity with the ethical project Plato has in mind when he thinks of good art. (This is hard to notice in his text because he is so negative, but there are ways of extracting the positive from the negative–I challenge you to do this.)

       I find your reading of the different “partitions” involved in both B’s video and the Time image to be interesting but I would love to see these thoughts developed further–perhaps in conjunction with your thought that B’s work is an “ode to herself.” Is there a way that you view B’s work as playing a game of “hide and go seek” with the media——one moment “exposing” herself while in the next hiding behind a veil or “partition”? If so, what’s this about? What’s the point?

       Lastly, I encourage you to revisit your thoughts on Berlatsky and what he thinks of Beyonce. I think you may find that he is in a way close to the view you’re attributing to Simmons. At the same time, he goes beyond Simmons in critiquing Hooks and O’Reilly and in the way he interprets B’s work. Can you get into this a bit more?
       Thanks

       Reply

11. 1. In “The Republic” by Plato. I short find that plato is referring art in like a negative way because in the text he states “ imitation is surely far from the truth; and as it seems, it is due to this that it produces everything” which it seems like in a way that art is like an imitation that isn’t true to the people eye, but also that is one side story an painting or any item representing art it can be as one way to show an part of the story.
    2. In beyonce’s interpretation of her song Partition is form of showing the love from one another but in a way in showing that as women we should value ourself and not seem just like something a man can use for and when they tired they leave us like we don’t mean anything to them. In my opinion that shouldn’t be because we more powerful than just someone to be use for sex we have the power to be seen as what we want and we should love ourselves more than someone who won’t.
    3. A) A. Bell hook to beyonce’s song views him as like if she wasn’t promoting femenist because of how many younger girl could be able to hear that but that isn’t the case because the younger you could learn it would many young females to know.
    B) Quote: ” I actually feel like the major assault on feminism in our society has come from visual media, from television and videos.” Bell Hook.
    4. A.) O’Reilly’s also agrees on Bell’s view since they think negative about the words said and it encourages young girl to be like that
    B.) Quote: “I believe in entertainment and an entertainer like Beyonce and a mogul like you have an obligation to protect children, not put out exploitive garbage that you know harms impressionable children.”Bell Hooks.
    5. B.) Quote: The artist job throughout history is to say things people are inspired by” … “She’s a brilliant artist.”
    6. A.) Belatsky view to beyonce is neutral were he doesn’t agrees or disagrees with Beyonce which bring to his point whats the point of her making these type of videos? And who is the audience she is trying to inspire?
    B.) Quote: “Is that Bill O’Reilly sitting across the table with his back to the camera, nose behind the newspaper, oblivious and/ or harrumphing?”

    Reply

    1. Emily,
       Many of your ideas about Plato, Beyonce, and her commentators seem both nascent and prescient, and so I really want more of your thought to work with here. Some questions to consider:
       –What is “truth” for Plato? What different layers of truth does he give examples of? Furthermore, what does he think art ought to do (it’s clear he doesn’t think it should just imitate reality, but what SHOULD it do, for him?)
       –How does B’s work show us that women should value themselves? What specifically is in her song/video that indicates this?
       –Why does Hooks think B is against feminism?
       –Why does O’Reilly think B’s work has a negative influence on children?
       –Unpack your thoughts on Berlatsky a bit more: what exactly is he saying about B’s work and the commentary/critique it’s received? Be as specific as you can here.
       Also, please proofread this.
       Thanks

       Reply

12. 1. In Plato’s “Book X” of The Republic he looks at poetry with a negatively charged attitude, his implications can be viewed on page 107, paragraph 605b, “Similarly, we shall say the imitative poet produces a bad regime in the soul of each private man by making phantoms that are very far removed from the truth and by gratifying the soul’s foolish part, which doesn’t distinguish big from little, but believes the same thing are at one time big and another time little”. In this quote Plato believes that poets take their interpretations which are imitative of the subject matter’s original nature and influence those who intake their piece to then believing their creation or interpretation is the truth. My take on this is that Plato believes that originality can only be conceived by the creator and the imitator’s interpretation is false.

    2. Beyonce’a video is mainly intended to show the sexualization of the female body and the sexual acts explicitly mentioned as that is what the song is mainly about. “Now my mascara running, red lipstick smudged, Oh he so horny, he want to fuck. He bucked all my buttons, he ripped my blouse, He Monica Lewinsky’d all on my gown.” These sexual innuendos implied that oral sex was taking place in the back of the limousine.

    3a. Hooks interpretation is that Beyonce’s cover on TIME Magazine served to denigrate Beyonce a symbol of black wealth, excellence and beauty or in a feminist term she stated “symbolic annihilation.”

    3b. This is evident in Hooks statement “I feel like we have to draw those connections of our enslaved black female body to the female body of all girls, of all colors, with that predatory gaze. It’s interesting to think about ‘let’s take the image of of this super rich, very powerful black female and use it in service of imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.’ Because she probably had little control over that cover.

    4a. O’Reilly believes moguls and idols have a duty to protect vulnerable children without any other role model or parent from negative or inappropriate topics.

    4b. “I believe in entertainment and an entertainer like Beyonce and a mogul like you have an obligation to protect children, not put out exploitive garbage that you know harms impressionable children.”

    5a. Simmons believes that artists should not censor reality when expressing themselves or detailing the things they are inspired by. And if change wanted to happen then it should start at the root of the problem and not the messenger or the conveyor.

    5b. “If we want reality changed, then we have to do things that affect the core.”

    6a. Berlatsky opens the possibility that Beyonce is using the controversy to either further a marketing agenda or convey her own message by deconstructing the partition video and pointing out aspects which would appeal to conservative or radical values.

    6b. “The video is a fantasy about steamy married monogamous sex, which works deliberately to make O’Reilly’s conservative values look sexy and illicit. It’s also a re-imagining of black female eroticism as linked to power rather than subservience, which turns Hook’s respectability politics into a self-aware sensual tease. Not all of Beyonce’s art is necessarily great or thoughtful. But certainly on the topic of sexualization and power, she has something to say. So if people are going to rather helplessly use her body to further their own agendas, it seems worth remembering that everybody has a person attached-and that that person is not just an object of analysis and scorn, but, potentially, someone who can offer a critique herself.”

    Reply

    1. Miguel,

       Nice discussion of Plato and Beyonce–you raise a couple interesting points here that I’ve yet to see other students take up. In particular, the passage from Plato you quote finds him arguing that bad art “gratifies the soul’s foolish part”: can you think and say more about what he might mean by this? What sorts of things might he be thinking of when he refers to the “gratification of the soul’s foolish part”? Might he be referring to gluttony? Sexuality? Violence? Anything else? This is key for understanding what Plato suggests art ought to represent because it signals what he thinks art ought NOT to do (and those things go together).

       In what “style” do you think B’s video “shows the sexualization of the female body”? It’s certainly true that we see a woman being sexual in this video–women, plural, actually. But how would you describe the way B has depicted this subject? Is she trying to send a message of her own about the sexualization of women?

       Great work with the commentators. Can you break the quote by Berlatsky into pieces and address it part by part? There’s a lot going on in there!
       Thanks

       Reply

13. 1. According to Plato’s “The Republic”, it is evident he is not a fan of art. this statement can be confirmed when he says “imitation is surely far from the truth… he would deceive children and foolish human beings…”. Basically, he believes art is a form of a lie, and artists are frauds.
    2. Beyoncé’s work appears to be an interpretation of sex. This statement can be justified as she uses a lot of imagery in the lyrics of “Partition”, where she describes a sexual experience with her husband in the back of a limo.
    3a. Hook’s interpretation of Beyoncé is of someone who is against feminism.
    3b. “I see a part of Beyoncé, that is in fact, anti-feminist-um- that is assaulting- that is a terrorist…”
    4a. O’Reilly interprets Beyoncé as a negative influence on the adolescents that look up to her.
    4b.”…exploitive garbage that harms children…”
    5a. Unlike the last two, Simmons interprets her work as just simply doing her job as an artist.
    5b. ” the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell- to say things that people are inspired by…”
    6a. Berlatsky views Beyoncé as someone with an agenda when it comes to power
    6b. “If the ever-savvy Beyoncé ends up as a part of O’Reilly and hook’s marketing strategy, then their various forms of anger and condemnation are definitely part of hers as well”

    Reply

14. 1. According to Plato’s “The Republic”, it is evident he is not a fan of art. this statement can be confirmed when he says “imitation is surely far from the truth… he would deceive children and foolish human beings…”. Basically, he believes art is a form of a lie, and artists are frauds.
    2. Beyoncé’s work appears to be an interpretation of sex. This statement can be justified as she uses a lot of imagery in the lyrics of “Partition”, where she describes a sexual experience with her husband in the back of a limo.
    3a. Hook’s interpretation of Beyoncé is of someone who is against feminism.
    3b. “I see a part of Beyoncé, that is in fact, anti-feminist-um- that is assaulting- that is a terrorist…”
    4a. O’Reilly interprets Beyoncé as a negative influence on the adolescents that look up to her.
    4b.”…exploitive garbage that harms children…”
    5a. Unlike the last two, Simmons interprets her work as just simply doing her job as an artist.
    5b. ” the artist’s job throughout history has been to tell- to say things that people are inspired by…”
    6a. Berlatsky views Beyoncé as someone with an agenda when it comes to power
    6b. “If the ever-savvy Beyoncé ends up as a part of O’Reilly and hook’s marketing strategy, then their various forms of anger and condemnation are definitely part of hers as well”

    Reply

    1. Haziq,

       Many of your ideas about Plato, Beyonce, and her commentators seem both nascent and prescient, and so I really want more of your thought to work with here. Some questions to consider:
       –What is “truth” for Plato? What different layers of truth does he give examples of? Furthermore, what does he think art ought to do (it’s clear he doesn’t think it should just imitate reality, but what SHOULD it do, for him?)
       –Why does Hooks think B is against faminism?
       –Why does O’Reilly think B’s work has a negative influence on children?
       –Unpack the Berlatsky quote a bit more: what exactly is the “agenda” you think he espouses Beyonce to have? What does he mean when he suggests that O’Reilly and Hooks’ “anger and condemnation are…part of [Beyonce’s] as well”?
       Thanks

       Reply

15. Indeevari Kumarasinghe 6/4 Due by 6/8 Assignment # 2

    1) In “The republic” by Plato, he sees art as an imitation of the truth. According to Plato’s argument. Artist creates the imitation of the truth. Plato sees art as a distortion of reality. I think he’s trying to say that art is just an act of imitating pre-existing ideas by materializing them according to the artist’s own vision. Plato explains that the couch exists in the form of an idea. The craftsman holds the idea of a couch in his mind until he or she decides to physically create it and deliver it to our material world. However, the idea of a physical couch has been already conceived by others, and this is only his interpretation of a couch. Plato considers nature or God to be the original artist of such a wooden couch, as God/nature was the creator of the core material used to build this couch. Carpenter is merely a tool which rearranges and reshapes the wood to give it a form which was already pre-conceived. Plato also diminishes the role of a painter who paints such a couch. He sees his role as merely continuation or building up on the already existing art. Plato sees both of these artists not as artists but simply as people who remix the reality according to their inspiration. “Therefore, imitation is surely far from the truth; and, as it seems, it is due to this that it produces everything-because it lays hold of a certain small part of each thing, and that part is itself only a phantom”.

    2)Beyoncé’s work has been criticized repetitively for exposing sexuality. Beyoncé has inspired millions of people all around the world. Her songs, her performances, and her lifestyle are adored, followed and imitated by many. Many young and older women look up to her. Her act is outgoing, often shameless and unapologetic. Many may see it as an act with no class, or simply as portraying and selling sexuality to get more attention/listeners/money. Others however, see her act as an interpretation of a free and independent woman. Therefore, for many girls she may be an inspiration to help them build their strong characters.

    3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society)
    Hooks argues that the visual media has a bigger impact on our society because it objectifies the female body.

    3b (Quotation from Hooks)
    “I actually feel like the major assault on feminism in our society has come from visual, media from television and videos”

    4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument):
    O’Reilly seems surprised about the fact that such a famous and successful woman as Beyoncé uses sexuality to promote her art. He argues that her act works against the society which according to him tries to stop the growing number of unwanted teen pregnancies. O’reilly says that such songs and visuals only encourage Beyonce’s young audience to experiment with sex.

    4b (Quotation from O’Reilly):
    “Why on the earth would this woman do that?”

    5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument): Simmons sees Beyoncé’s work as a form of art. He says she is simply doing her job as an artist, because according to him, an artist’s job is to express things that inspire people. He argues that today’s society is highly inspired by sex, and in order to change the subject of artists’ inspirations, we first need to change society from within.

    5b (Quotation from Simmons): “Yes. I kind of think that the artists throughout history, poets throughout history have been criticized for sharing what is on people’s mind and I do not think it is any different now.

    6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument):
    Berlatsky argues that O’reilly is not capable of interpreting Beyonce’s art, because he is not looking beyond the surface act which only serves as a vehicle to get her deeper messages across, more effectively.

    6b (Quotation from Berlatsky): “So if people are going to rather helplessly use her body to further their own agendas, it seems worth remembering that everybody has a person attached- and that person is not just an object of analysis and scorn, but, potentially, someone who can offer a critique herself”

    Reply

    1. Indeevari,
       Great grappling with Plato–I think you effectively absorbed his critique of the imitative aspect of art into your discussion of him. Can you say more, though, about what he thinks art ought to do——specifically with regard to the relationship between art and ethics? This is the subtler and harder thing to glean from this text, but it’s possible to see upon close reading it.

       Nothing to object to in your discussion of Beyonce; however, I want to know more about your OWN interpretation of what you think Beyonce’s work “interprets”. WHat’s YOUR take on Beyonce’s “Partition” (song and/or video)?

       Connect your take on Hooks (which is good) a bit more to Beyonce: what’s Hooks saying about B?

       Yes to your work on O’Reilly, Simmons, and Berlatsky. Go further with the latter, though: what’s he have to say about Hooks? What does he propose B’s work is “critiqueing”?
       Thanks.

       Reply

16. I believe that based on Plato’s Book X of the republic, he thinks that the imitative aspect of art is good and that art should be valued for such imitative possibilities. Plato discusses how art can represent certain things and how it can be connected to other things. Throughout the text he focuses on how exactly art can imitate so many different things and how art can speak for itself.

    Beyonce’s work is an interpretation of trends, it is just misinterpreted or interpreted differently by others. Beyonce’s music videos are always very visual and well thought out. She uses her platform mainly to engage in trending topics or what’s going on in society. The song and music video for partition focuses on her sexual appeal but in regards to feminism. O’Reilly and Hooks’ criticism towards her is a prime example of what she is standing against. If a man were to be the artist of the song Partition, I’m sure both critics would have different and positive thoughts.

    Hooks’ argument against beyonce is very similar to O’reilly’s, she believes that Beyonce a fake feminist and interperts her art role in society as degrading to women.

    “ Hooks, surprisingly, seems to agree. “I see a part of Beyoncé that is, in fact, anti-feminist that is, a terrorist especially in terms of the impact on young girls,”

    O’reilly interprets Beyonce as the sole key and role model to younger girls and believes she should promote her platform as more kid-friendly. He makes it clear that he doesnt think teenager girls should be listening to or watching videos of Beyonce promoting sex and that it will negatively impact them in the long run.

    “Teenage girls look up to Beyoncé, particularly girls of color. Why would she do it when she knows the devastation of unwanted pregnancies. … Why would Beyoncé do that?”

    Simmons defends Beyonce’s work and refers to it as art. He says that his daughters have already been exposed to the things and language Beyonce is promoting and that how they are raised will impact their choices not Beyonce. He even discusses the brain and how men think about sex every 12 seconds, hinting at a feminist jab at O’Reilly.

    ““She’s a brilliant artist. And she’s not only appreciated by people of color, as you know, she’s really one of the top artists in the world to people of every color.””
    Berlansky focuses on O’reillys and Hooks’ criticism on Beyonce and he states how they criticize her for their political satisfaction. He suggested they do it because they wanted to go viral, which they did. And maybe even that Beyonce changed her style to also sell.
    “I don’t mean to question the sincerity of O’Reilly’s concern about media sexualization, nor to suggest that hooks wanted her comments to go viral. But intentionally or not, they both end up using Beyoncé’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world”

    Reply

    1. Chelsea,
       Great read of Berlatsky’s take on the great Beyonce debate of the mid-2010s. You’ve clearly absorbed his view into your own readings of Hooks and O’Reilly and their respective quests to draw attention to their own positions–each of which being oddly anti-sex, albeit in different ways. (There is a special irony to O’Reilly’s moralizing view on the sexuality on view in B’s art given that he was subsequently “MeToo’d” and let go by Fox News for the accusations of sexual harassment brought against him by several women with whom he’d worked.)

       I urge you to revise your take on Plato, as I’m not sure at all he’s a fan of “imitative” art. I also want to see more evidence of your interesting claim that Beyonce’s work is about the interpretation of trends. Can you refer to specific passages in both Plato’s work and Beyonce’s work (in which a “passage” could be a specific segment of her video…or song)? That would help substantialize your discussion of both these works.
       Thanks

       Reply

17. 1. Plato believes the imitative aspect of art is bad mainly because it hides the full truth of the work’s origin. Many times, a work of art is replicated after something from nature, but yet it does not hold the same value. For example, in his analogy of the couches, he explains how God can create a couch but then a craftsman can come along and recreate a couch as well. Although the people cannot see their differences, they each hold a different kind of significance that is not displayed. He believes art should represent the deeper layers of the subject. Not only what they see, but the mechanics within or the story behind it. Plato illustrates that the use of imitativeness only fools an audience and does not provide them with the entire truth.

    2. Beyonce’s work appears to be an interpretation of not only her power as a wealthy artist, but as a woman. She uses her image to inspire others, especially those of color, and in a way motivates them to find the strength and confidence within themselves. She uses her music and her body as a sign of that power she holds, only emphasizing the value of feminism.

    3. a) Hooks believes Beyoncé’s image is used to create this “fantasy” that glorifies the wealth and fame status she has that everyone wants. In a way, they have used her image to not eliminate oppression, but to make others feel even more oppressed, even within their own culture. Hooks also thinks this kind of art only diminishes the value of feminism, which is also moving society in the wrong direction. b) “You are not going to destroy this imperialist , white, supremacist , capitalist, patriarchy by creating your own version of it.”

    4 . a) O’Reilly shames Beyoncé’s art for being over sexualized. He emphasizes how much of a role model Beyonce is to many young girls and how this kind of influence is not the kind of image these children should be witnessing. O’Reilly believes art and entertainment as a whole should be protecting children from such harmful images and should have a positive effect on them. b) “Teenage girls look up to Beyonce, particularly girls of color… Why would she do that when she knows the devastation of unwanted pregnancies…”.

    5. a) Simmons realizes that Beyoncé’s work is merely a reflection of what most of society is inspired by. The image of sex is something that is brought up very often, so an artist is going to base their work around it. Simmons believes that art only displays what is it is others are interested in. b) “If we want that reality to changed, then we have to do things that affect the core.”

    6. a) Berlatsky digs deeper into Beyoncé’s work and sees that she is relaying a rather empowering message through it. He believes that everyone’s opinion has their valid points but sees that in her work, Beyonce is showing her own strength and confidence as a powerful individual. Berlastsky believes that although art may come off as “sexualized”, the artist themselves is trying to get at something else. b) “The video is a fantasy about steamy married monogamous sex… also a re-imagining of black female eroctism as linked to power rather than subservice…”

    Reply

    1. Randy,
       Nice thoughts about Plato and Beyonce. I’m interested in the point you raise about the role that displays of wealth play in Beyonce’s work (no one else has brought this up yet). Can you take this part of your reading of her work further. What in particular in her work evidences this display of wealth that you mention? What import does this have for us as viewers? (How ought we to respond to this? With adoration? Critique?)

       As for Plato, can you speak more to how you think he might view the relationship between art and virtue–that is, art and ethics? I think you’re right that he wants art to tap into the deeper “truth” of things, but there’s also a moral element to his view of art. Can you unpack this and also provide a quotation from his text?
       Thanks
       M

       Reply

18. 1)

    2)  Beyoncé’s Partition music video is an interpretation of the sexiness, beauty, elegance, and sophistication of how the world views women. Also. one could view her message as persuasive maybe to portray how she views herself. One of the most repetitive lines in the chorus of the song is “I want to be the girl you lick”. This line indicates the key message behind her video. Beyoncé wants her husband to desire her in all her beauty. The message is clear and unclear at the same time because one could say that the explicit portrayal of lustful behavior from Beyoncé in the video promotes the wrong message to her female audience, but I think she’s just showing off her beauty for her husband. For example, in the opening scene, Beyoncé has a white morning robe on with black glasses sitting across from her husband. He seems to be paying more attention to the newspaper than to her. Beyoncé then picks up her napkin and drops it on the floor for her female servant to retrieve it for her. The rest of the scenes in the video, in my opinion, are mere exaggerations of Beyoncé showing off her body to her husband to be the center of his attention. I don’t think she had any other intentional subliminal messages to send out to her younger female audience. I think it was strictly an exaggeration of what a woman is willing to do to be her spouse’s main attraction.

    3a) Hooks view on Beyoncé is that she is an anti-feminist terrorist. She believes that Beyoncé is wrong for letting the media portray her in such an erotic and sexual way because of the harmful message that could negatively effect young girls.  

    3b) “My main concern is the whole idea of containment. I see a part of Beyoncé that is in fact anti-feminist, that is assaulting-that is a terrorist. Especially in terms of the impact on young girls.”(“Are You Still a Slave? Liberating the Black Female Body on the representation of black women in the media”, Hooks).

    4a) O’Reilly completely disagrees with Beyoncé in questioning her reasoning for promoting a sexual message to younger girls, saying that it would cause unwanted pregnancies. He interpreted her message to be negative and intentional. 

    4b) “I’m saying why on earth would this woman do that? Why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies, which we will deal with in a moment, not with you, but in another segment, and fractured families, why Beyoncé does that?”(“Conversation about Beyoncé”, O’Reilly & Simmons). 

    5a) Russel Simmons interprets Beyoncé as an actual artist, using self expression. He doesn’t view her video or content as negative and sees it as it’s supposed to be viewed as art. He also interprets art as a reflection of our reality.

    5b) “And so as when an artist expresses something that’s sexual in music it is a reflection of our reality. If we want that reality changed, then we have to do things that affect the core.” (“Conversation about Beyoncé”, O’Reilly & Simmons).

    6a) Noah Berlatsky defends Beyoncé and questions if Hooks and O’Reily scorn Beyoncé for capital gain. She mentions that since Beyoncé is well known and across the world that an automatic critique would draw anyone’s attention. She defends Beyoncé by saying that she’s not just a body to be adorned and is not only an artist to be scorned for her content. She says Beyoncé isn’t just a body to be exploited over and to remember that attached to every artist is a soul. In simpler terms, they are still human beings.

    6b) “But certainly on the topic of sexualization and power, she had something to say. So if people are going to rather helplessly use her body to further their own agendas, it seems worth remembering that everybody has a person attached-and that that person is not just an object of analysis and scorn, but, potentially, someone who can offer a critique herself.”( “Beyoncé, Sex Terrorist”, Berlatsky).

    Reply

    1. Jamal,

       Absolutely fabulous work on Beyonce and the perspectives of the four commentators we’ve been looking at this past week. I’m also very intrigued by your own interpretation of the “Partition” video, which centers on this repeating phrase: “I want to be the girl you like” (you had written “lick”–which is an interesting slip and perhaps also applicable to the video’s different references to orality).

       I challenge you, when you revise this, to bring in Plato. Give yourself some time with that text; it’s difficult, but I mostly want you to see how it’s possible to connect an ancient philosopher’s thought to contemporary discourse about art. For instance, I think Simmons’ view of Beyonce’s work resonates with what Plato describes as a “mimetic” view of art; meanwhile, O’Reilly and Hooks seem to espouse views that resonate with what Plato seems to advocate good art ought to do… See what you can do with this.

       Reply

19. 1)In “The Republic”, Art is an often misunderstood element of the republican as most people believe that Plato did not think that art was good at all such a mistake is easily rectified when we consider that Plato was a playwright and his works were all dialogues taking on our art form in themselves. what Plato was really stressing is that those who create must be knowledgeable and masters of their craft, Plato explains this by starting with a concept of a couch he explains that the couch exists in the form of an idea, a craftsman grabs hold of this idea and using his skills and raw materials creates the couch in a physical sense that one can sit up. An Artist Comes around, sees that same couch and decides to paint a picture of it. The artist is not in this sense working with the prime ideas but rather with a lesser copy of the idea, hence the artist does not know anything about the object besides what it looks like making his knowledge inferior. This is the sort of art that Plato fights against in “The republican”.

    2)Regarding Beyonce, her music portrayed sex in my opinion, exploring the deep, sexual nature of Beyonce, “Partition” depicts having sex in the back of a limousine. In my opinion, I believe through the year things are getting more graphics, and in a way, it scares me because kids at a young age are learning things they are not supposed to know that early in age and that all music singers make. Beyonce has a big audience and I believe she should keep that in mind.

    3)The interpretation by Hooks of Beyoncé and the discussion on the role of art in society.
    Hooks doesn’t agree with Beyonce. He believes that shes anti-feminist.

    1.a) Hooks disagrees with Beyoncé. He thinks that Beyoncé is anti-feminist. He said that it will have an impact on society.
    b)” I see a part of Beyoncé that is, in fact, anti-feminist—that is, a terrorist—especially in terms of the impact on young girls.”
    4. a) O’Reilly feels Beyoncé gives young people a poor example. He doesn’t want to try sexual things from young people.
    b) “Why on the earth would this woman do that?”
    5. a)Russel Simmons claims that Beyoncé shows her individuality in the mv. He said Beyoncé wanted to encourage men. Beyoncé is not recognized as a performer.
    b) “Yeah, yeah. I sort of think that artists throughout history, writers throughout history, have been blamed for expressing what is in people’s minds, and I don’t think it’s any different now. ”
    6. a)Beyoncé’s Berlatsky views by voicing themselves in the music video demonstrate his own abilities. He said Beyoncé was also trying to inspire youth. Everyone has a view of themselves and tells us about the work of Beyoncé.
    b) “And if people are going to use their bodies somewhat helplessly to pursue their own interests, it seems worth remembering that everybody has a person attached to him-and that person is not only an object of ridicule and scorn, but actually someone who can give himself a critique. ”

    Reply

20. In the reading of Plato: The Republic (Book X), Plato’s aspect of art is negative. He states “You could fabricate them quickly in many ways and most quickly, of course, if you are willing to take a mirror and carry it around everywhere, ” meaning that if you were to take a mirror and reflect a couch upon it, it would be the same as an art piece of a couch. I disagree with this statement because a reflection of a couch in a mirror is not going to reflect in the mirror forever, however, if you paint a couch with the inspiration you took from looking at the original couch it can become something different or unique. In a conversation between the two, they bring up a very good point, that the painter does not understand what he is painting therefore he imitates it. In the quote: “Then it looks like we are pretty well agreed on these things: the imitator knows nothing worth mentioning about what he imitates;” here I agree to an extent with him since not every artist knows about the subject that he chooses to paint but they do know that someone who observes the painting will know about it, thus being referred to as an artist by many.

    Beyonce’s work appears to be an interpretation of a female that has a lot of influential power and wants to use it to send a message. I believe she is comfortable with her sexuality, yet I don’t understand what’s so bad about that because if she was a man the public wouldn’t be offended for some of the things she portrayed. The majority of the responses that we have read towards her magazine cover, as well as the song “Partition”, are bashing her for the amount of sexual content going on, telling people that many young girls look up to her and she shouldn’t advertise sex at all. I believe it is just an act of female power, she’s breaking a wall where only men can sing\rap about such things.

    3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society): Hooks believes that Beyonce is disempowering black women leaving them vulnerable for men.

    3b (Quotation from Hooks): “ Let’s take the image of this super-rich, very powerful black women and use it in the service of imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy. ”

    4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument): O’Reilly is saying that Beyonce as a big artist that she is has to protect the young ones from sexual thoughts or activities.

    4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): “I believe in the entertainment and an entertainer like Beyonce and a mogul like you have an obligation to protect children, not to put out exploitive garbage that you know harms impressionable children.”

    5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument): Simmon believes what Beyonce is doing is an art and what she portrayed is a representation of our reality.
    5b (Quotation from Simmons): “ And so an artist expresses something that’s sexual in music it is a reflection of our reality.”

    6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument): He believes that both O’Reilly and hooks might have used Beyonce to make their comments go viral.

    6b (Quotation from Berlatsky): “They both end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world..”

    Reply

    1. Starlyn, hi. Nice reading you.

       1. Interesting thoughts on Plato. Can you frontload your discussion of the quote a bit more with some context. Just fill us in on the discussion that Socrates and his pupil are having about the couch so that when you drop in the quote—which refers to “them”—your reader will know what this pronoun refers to. Good point about the lasting power of art vs. the lasting power of the mirror. I suppose there might be more to say here about other ways that representational art (drawings of a couch, for instance) differ from the images produced by a mirror. Can you say more? At the very least, it seems that the drawing of the couch has to pass through the mind of the artist whereas the mirror has no subjectivity of its own…

       2. Is B’s work really an “interpretation of a female that has a lot of cultural influence”? I mean, Beyonce IS a woman with a lot of cultural influence, but does that mean she is interpreting herself in her work? Perhaps, but we ought to say something more specific about this. What do you mean here? Is she interpreting something related to gender? sexuality? both? neither? You tell us!

       3-6. Good.

       Reply

21. 1. In the reading “The Republic”, Plato gives his point of view on the imitative aspects of arts that are negative because they seem to lack creativeness. When creating imitative art it loses value from the original piece because there is no true understanding to the piece. He states, “When one of these attaches itself to something, doesn’t it make the thing to which it attaches itself bad and, in the end, wholly dissolve and destroy it?” meaning that as more pieces are made reflecting that original piece it will eventually lose its real value;instead of making the piece seem more powerful.
    2.Beyonce’s work seems to be an interpretation of a woman’s body and beauty. She is showing off her body and in the lyrics she is trying to be the right person for this guy. As if she just wants to please the guy with her body, as she enjoys it as well.
    3.
    3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society):
    Hooks’ interpretation of Beyonce is that she is representing the body of all females, fighting against “imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy”
    3b (Quotation from Hooks): “I think it is fantasy that we can re-coup the violating image and use it- i used to get so tired of people quoting Audre Lorde’s ‘the master tool will never dismantle the master’s houser’ but that is exactly what she meant: you are not going to destroy this imperialist, white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchy by creating your own version of it”
    4.
    4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument): O’Reilly’s interpretation of beyonce is that she is glorifies having sex in the back of a limousine.
    4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): “why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies”
    5.
    5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument): Simmons’ believes that artists have been the ones to bring out to the light what inspires people and what they really believe.
    5b (Quotation from Simmons): “there is a research that says a man thinks about sex every 12 seconds. And so when an artist expresses something that is sexual in music it is a reflection of our reality.”
    6.
    6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument): Berlatsky’s interpretation of Beyonce is neutral since she is using her popularity and body to attract people to her art and what she does, as well as others use her body.
    6b (Quotation from Berlatsky): “but intentionally or not , they both end up using Beyonce’s body to broadcast their message of a more conservative or radical world.”

    Reply

22. HW#2- Revised
    1. In the first section of your response, I will leave it to you to figure out whether you think Plato (& the character of Socrates through whom Plato speaks) thinks this imitative aspect of art is good or bad and the kinds of values he thinks art should project—what he thinks art should try to get people to do or think, the sort of things he thinks art should represent, etc. (Read carefully!) You are also welcome to respond to Plato’s views on art; he’s a famous philosopher, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him!

    In “The Republic” by Pluto, Pluto disagrees with aspects of the arts. He thinks that the other artists keep on recreating the same thing rather than keeping the original form of the art. He wants artists to have their own mindsets and draw the things that they like to draw.

    2. What does Beyoncé’s work appear to be an interpretation of? (You can be creative with your response because I’m not sure I have a “correct” answer to this question in mind—it is, after all, a matter of interpretation what her work seems to be interpreting.)

    Beyoncé’s work appears to be an interpretation of her own style. She wants to try different styles of music. She is an amazing and talented singer. She was criticized a lot for showing the sexual side of her. There are a lot of people that like her songs and a lot of people who don’t like it. People think she is careless, but a lot of people look up to her as a good role model.

    3a (Hooks’ interpretation of Beyoncé and argument about art’s role in society): Bell Hooks disagrees with Beyoncé. She stated that Beyoncé is trying to show off her body to gain attention from the guy she likes. She thinks that Beyoncé is anti-feminist and will have an impact on society.

    3b (Quotation from Hooks): “I see a part of Beyoncé that is, in fact, anti-feminist—that is, a terrorist—especially in terms of the impact on young girls.”

    4a (O’Reilly’s interpretation/argument): Bill O’Reilly thinks Beyoncé is setting a bad example for young people to follow. He doesn’t want young people to engage in sexual things. O’Reilly is against Beyoncé mv.

    4b (Quotation from O’Reilly): “That’s art?! Beyoncé in the back of a limo having sex and referencing Monica Lewinsky, is art?”

    5a (Simmons’ interpretation/argument): Russel Simmons says Beyoncé is expressing herself by expressing sexuality in the mv. He said that Beyoncé was trying to inspire others. He doesn’t view Beyoncé as an artist.

    5b (Quotation from Simmons): “She’s a brilliant artist. And she’s not only [appreciated] by people of color, as you know, she’s really one of the top artists in the world [to] people of every color.”

    6a (Berlatsky’s interpretation/argument): Noah Berlatsky views Beyoncé as a singer that is showing her own skills by expressing herself in the music video. He also said that Beyoncé was trying to inspire young people to be yourself. Everyone has their own opinion and saying about Beyoncé’s work.

    6b (Quotation from Berlatsky): “So if people are going to rather helplessly use her body to further their own agendas, it seems worth remembering that everybody has a person attached- and that person is not just an object of analysis and scorn, but, potentially, someone who can offer a critique herself.”

    Reply

    1. Victor, hi. Thank you for this. Some suggestions for revision follow below.

       1. I think it would help for you to include a quotation from Plato’s text and discuss how it connects to your thought that he doesn’t like artists because they “keep recreating the same thing rather than producing the original.”

       2. I’m not quite sure what you mean when you claim B’s work to be an “interpretation of her own style.” This is certainly an interesting thought, but it means something different than her wanting to “try different styles of music” as you suggest in your next sentence. That sentence suggests to me that she is interpreting different styles of music. Can you explain more here about what you mean? Maybe re-word a bit too? Also, it would again be helpful for you to refer to a specific passage in either her song or video (“Partition”) in order to explain your points.

       3-6. Great work.

       Reply

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