This week, I would like you to consider two photographic works taken at the very beginning of the Civil Rights movement in the 1950s. In 1955, Swiss-born photographer Robert Frank traveled across the country taking photographs of people. Unbeknownst to him was the impact his photographs would have in their published form, The Americans (1958/1959). Described as “un-American” or as a “sad poem by a very sick person,” The Americans captured the social undercurrents of life in the 1950s. Frank’s unique style was highly influential to following generations of photographers. His photographs often revealed a social divide between blacks and whites in America, a rift that his critics did not wish acknowledge. Just two years later, a phenomenal photograph was taken on the first day of a desegregated school, which suggests that Frank had indeed felt the true pulse of America. Read (or listen) about these two works: Frank’s The Americans and the photo-journalist Will Counts’ image of Elizabeth Eckford going to high school in Little Rock, AK in 1957. Do you think one type of photography, Frank’s “art” photography vs. Counts’ news photography, is more effective than the other? Or are both powerful visual documents of social inequities in American society of the Fifties?
Read (or listen) to NPR’s report on Robert Frank’s The Americans
Read the story behind Will Counts’ photograph of Elizabeth Eckford
Please post your responses by Thursday, December 1st. Please note: due to the upcoming paper due on November 17 and Thanksgiving, you have THREE weeks to post/comment on this discussion topic. For those of you who are behind on your blogging, I will continue to post a Discussion Topic on November 17 as well as on Thanksgiving! in order to allow time for you to make up missed posts. These later Discussion Topics will also be due December 1.
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I think that both “types” of photography can be equally effective. Whether art or news photo, to me they can be equally effective as long as they both leave a strong impression on me. I thin that even obviously and completely staged photograph can be effective and send the message across if executed effectively. To me it doesn’t matter if it is staged if it gets me thinking.
These two photos are very powerful. I have seen Count’s photo before and it really needs no captions or titles, it just sends a powerful message. Franks photo on the other hand is more artful but also very powerful. It not only shows how even buses in the 50s were segregated by the color and people were seated according to their skin color, but to me it also looks like a group of portraits. Every person in this photo could be a portrait photograph on its own in my opinion. Even construction of the bus helps frame those individual portraits. Franks photo might not be as “obvious” as Count’s but to me it doesn’t make it less effective at all. It actually got me thinking more and deeper than the other one.
I hate to repeat you but all the points I wanted to address are in your comment, forgive me.
Anyway, I, too, found both photos effective in driving the issue of segregation although Frank’s is subtle, which makes me appreciate it more. For some reason, Counts’ photo looks staged to me. I know it’s not but that sense of artificiality diminishes the impact it should have on me.
Also, I found the individuals in each separate window on the trolley can each be their own portrait and each has a story to tell (just like the train photos in last discussion).
I wrote this, forgot to sign in. Can’t figure out how to delete it.
Good question, I’m not sure either!
I disagree with you on the part that Frank’s photographs are more effective than Counts’, but of course that is just my opinion. I believe that Counts’ photographies show a lot more emotion in them. Being segregated in a trolley, and sitting down in different sections according to skin color, doesn’t seem nearly as bad as what Elizabeth had to go through on her first day of school. Taking all those insults from Hazel B. also getting spit by an old lady while trying to find a friendly face, seems a lot more horrible. The facial expressions in Counts’ picture show a lot more emotions to me, such as rage, fear, etc. But, I still believe that both types of pictures contributed greatly in showing the injustice in America.
In my opinion the photograph of Elizabeth Eckford and Hazel Bryan is a lot more powerful and effective. The photograph with the people on the bus definitely is affective and has meaning but i feel as though the other photograph has a lot more emotion the women yelling at the innocent student just going to school makes me think of how hard the girls life must have been going to school day by day and having to deal with people yelling and screaming at her just because of her color. The other photograph works as well it shows the reality of how things were at that time the people in the photo don’t look sad or anything which shows that the seating arrangement was a normal everyday routine for them.
Both photographs have a meaning and have huge impact on history but I think in Count’s photo you can feel the emotions through out the picture especially the woman yelling, you can tell just by looking at the photo and not reading the caption that she was saying inappropriate and negative things to the African American woman and you can tell by Elizabeth’s facial expression that what was being said wasn’t nice. In the other photo it shows how blacks and whites were separated and you also feel some sort of way looking at it, both photos show how badly blacks were treated, but I feel like Count’s picture is more in your face and I think its because you see one African American in a sea of all white people even though more blacks were present.
I think both of the images are pretty dramatic. They both show the interracial tension that was going on during the time the photos were taken. Although the Elizabeth Eckford image shows the real hatred on the white girl’s face. In Frank’s photograph we see the segregation but there is no hate. One can even think the image does not show the racial issues. The black riders could be just the regular riders of the bus. The fact that they sit in the back could have been a coincidence. Although the title civil war, clears it all.
Both photographers had their goals while taking these photos. They both were trying to show something and they were successful at it. The photo of Elizabeth Eckford presents the scene that shows how it felt to be segregated. She is the only one among the white people in the photo. The girl behind Elizbeth has an expression of hatred. There are others who are laughing at her as she walks. This gives the viewer an idea of how the discriminated people feel.
The other photo by Frank, shows the segregation in the transportation. It looks like as if the portraits of people are separated in order of the color of their skin.
I like the first photo better because it shows more meaningful scene. But they both show what they were intended to show.
I think that both photographs effectively shows inequalities in American society in 1950s although I think they deliver the different messages. First of all, Frank’s photography is well composed and artistic because of its formal and symmetrical compostion, and this artistic aspect is successful to make people look at the picture and guides them to think what it tries to show since it gets more attention than Count’s photo. I think the messeage in Frank’s photo is about the financial gap between whites and blacks as my eyes were immediately caught by the children wears nice suits and dress while the black guy wears shirt looks dull. On the Count’s photography, it doensn’t have the artistic sense to get attention to the photo, but the face expression of both white and black women reveals directly and instantly about hatred issue between whites and blacks. Also by framing only one black woman, Elizabeth Eckford, surrounded by white people suggests that black people were the ones suffered and segregated in the injustice in 1950s in American society. Therefore, I think both photographs are powerful but in different ways and messages.
These two photographs are both effective. I personally find that Frank’s “art” photography is visually more appealing. The composition is more interesting, which makes it easier to capture the eyes of the audiences. In Frank’s photograph, white people and black people are seen as literally separated to sit in different sections of the bus, and the frames of the windows further reinforced the meaning of segregation. This would be a very powerful story-telling photograph of social inequalities in American societies of the Fifties, if it’s presented to the audiences in the Fifties or to those who have the background knowledge of that time period. Otherwise, Frank’s photograph would look more like an ordinary picture taken for a group of people who are looking out the bus, where the black passengers are just coincidentally sitting in a section of the back of the bus. Truly saying, if I didn’t read the descriptions of this discussion topic, I wouldn’t see any significance in Frank’s picture, or I wouldn’t interpret this picture as any evidence of social inequalities in the Fifties. On the other hand, even though Count’s photograph is not as artistic as Frank’s, I think Counts’ photograph can be really a powerful visual documents of the social inequalities, and it can even be a representational photograph of the inequalities issue in the Fifties. Because the emotions of the characters in this picture are just so strong that you can get the story right away by looking at it, and you can really feel the resentment of Hazel, and the hardship that Elizabeth had been going through in this time period.
The both photographers did a very effective job, in my opinion. They show the same things but differently. Both photographers tried to express the same ideas but using different way. I think that Frank have more creative approach. his photos are not so obviously reveal this idea of racial discrimination. They make viewers think and understand it by themselves. On Count’s photo we can see everything right away, without thinking. We can see this rage, hate and fear on the face of students. But for me all this photographs are very important, because they help to understand this unfair relationship between the people.
I think that both images are equally effective and emotional in a sense that it tells you a story within. It shows a great deal of social stratification and impacted the audience to the point that they’d rather not talk about it. Frank’s photo shows how segregation came to effect on the buses. It gives you a feeling of tension and drama in both Frank and Count’s images. Count’s photograph however, is more visible. The women’s faces say it all – You can draw conclusions just by looking at their facial expressions and body language .
Both photographers are visually effective. Although Frank’s photograph is labelled as ‘art’ and Count’s as ‘new photography,’ I would say that both are documentary because of the significance of the photographs. When I first saw Frank’s photograph, I was truly taken aback. Although I know a little about segregation, the photograph showed the actuality of the experience of colored people living in the south in the 1950’s. Having knowledge of something and seeing or experiencing it is more powerful. Both photographs revealed emotions of the subjects on both sides of the fence and it also displayed the reality of the social inequalities in America. There are different interpretations of each photograph however it’s undeniable that the events took place.
In my opinion both photographs seem equally powerful and effective in showing the social inequities in American society during the fifties between the blacks and whites. The only thing is that the photographs are being delivered and being visually presented differently. Robert Frank presents the social divide between the blacks and whites in a unique and artistic form in his photograph while Will Counts’ image of Elizabeth Eckford presents the social divide in a more emotional way. In Robert Frank’s photographs we have the white people sitting in the front while the black people are being seated in the back. Each person is looking out the window as if they knew they were being photographed. The windows serve as frames for each person. There is an artistic form and feel of symmetry going on in Frank’s composition but we can still feel and visually see the segregation. We can visually see that the white people are sitting in the front as if to tell the viewer that they were indeed superior to the blacks so there’s this feeling of unfairness and inequality to the viewer when you see that in this image. Also the white people are better dressed so there’s that separation of social status being presented too. In Will Count’s photograph we can visually feel and almost hear the nasty racist remarks being told to Elizabeth Eckford. Although one might feel more powerful than the other to some. I feel that both photographers were successful in achieving to demonstrate the hardships of segregation in their photographs.