In class yesterday, we began talking about “Young Goodman Brown” but didn’t really get to “The Metamorphosis” at all. For our discussion this week, I’d like to offer the option that we try what Gavin suggested in class yesterday, that we return to previous discussions, in addition to starting the next discussion here.
To that end, please feel free to contribute something new to the discussion on “The Metamorphosis.”
Next, please contribute to our discussion here about “The Yellow Wall-Paper” and “The Cottagette” by Charlotte Perkins Gilman.
One topic for discussion is to comment on the kinds of narrators we find in these two short stories. In addition to identifying them using the terminology we have discussed on the site and in class, there is another aspect of the narrator we can think about: is the narrator of either story a reliable narrator or an unreliable narrator?
Another topic for discussion: we might use the words utopia and dystopia to describe these two short stories by Charlotte Perkins Gilman that we read. What do those words mean? Which story is utopian and which is dystopian? Why?
As always, you should spend 75 minutes reading the online discussion and contributing to it. Your work should be in the form of a comment either to the discussion post, or to another comment in the thread.
Being that both stories are single person narrator, they both give off a totally different feeling. “The Cottagette” was a tremendous story and her descriptions of things going on were well versed. where as “The Yellow Wallpaper” had an exaggerated view on everything. This was truly an unreliable narrator though I have to say that this narration put a lot of feeling into it and having a woman losing her sanity would be the best way to use it.
Utopia is a blissful, wonderful and beautiful Place or feeling that puts a person into great happiness. “The Cottagette” reveals the wondrous setting of a perfect ending. Dystopia means dire or grim, and that was truly the setting in “The Yellow Wallpaper”.
In this case I would use dystopia to describe Doctor John’s wife and her emotions and feelings.
In, The Cottagette, I saw that the story was being told in the first person narration, mainly in an autodiegetic narration. This is clearly seen numerous times in the story when the narrator, Malda, is talking about her views and what she liked. For example, in page 47, p.3, it states, “I was delighted with it. More than delighted; in page 47, p.7, it states, “Never did I know the real joy and peace of living…”; in page 47, p.9, it states, “I liked the music very well, and kept my thoughts to myself, both high and low, but “The Cottagette” I loved unreservedly,” and in page 49, p. 2-3, it states, “Mine wasn’t much. I did embroidery and made designs. It is such pretty work! I like to draw from flowers and leaves and things about me. So, Malda was talking about herself and I got to learn her point of view quickly then if the story was told in the third person narration. Furthermore, Malda was a reliable narrator because she talked about her love for Ford Matthews; herself finding a way to please Mr. Matthews; her likes of music, embroidery, and painting; her dislike of Lois’s mother, Mrs. Fowler; her discussing Lois being married before, and Mr. Matthews being of an older age. This was all information that gave me knowledge of who the characters were and what was the main idea of the story. As for my overall view of this story, I believe this story was utopian but with some aspects of a dystopian life because from what I have read “The Cottagette” was a summer retreat or a summer boarding school of artist (musicians, painters, etc.). However, Malda’s love for Mr. Matthews made her install a kitchenette in The Cottagette where people, including Mr. Matthews, would come and eat lunch or dinner. She wanted to do her needlework but she gave it up in order to show Mr. Matthews that she was potentially a good housewife, so that he can marry her. Malda tired herself out by all this cooking when Mr. Matthews loved her before she started cooking. At the end of the story it returns to a utopian life with Mr. Matthews expressing his love for Malda by stating he loved her artistic expressions in her painting, drawing, and embroidery and that she does not have to cook for him. Mr. Matthews wanted Malda to enjoy the things she loved and not give it up. I am unsure when this story was written but I know that during the 18th and 19th century, men cared about the women having a domestic quality to them, so this was nice to see Mr. Matthews loving Malda for her other attributes other than cooking, cleaning, and washing dishes.
In, The Yellow Wallpaper, I saw that the story was being told in the first person narration, mainly in an autodiegetic narration. The story is written in a diary format with the narrator telling what she is observing, her opinions, what ailment she is suffering with, and what she agrees and disagrees with. For example, in page 57, p.2, it states, “ A colonial mansion, a hereditary estate, I would say a haunted house…” and in page 57, p.11-14, it states, “My brother is also a physician…So I take phosphates or phosphites—whichever it is, and tonics, and journeys, and air, and exercise, and am absolutely forbidden to “work” until I am well again. Personally, I disagree with their ideas. Personally, I believe that congenial work, with excitement and change, would do me good.” However, the narrator, which was not identified by name in this story, was an unreliable narrator because all she kept addressing was the yellow wallpaper in her bedroom. I know she states her husband is a doctor and that she was unable to work because of her current mental condition but the story got really confusing when she said there was a women in the wallpaper and that she was one of the women that came out of the wallpaper. Maybe, the narrator was talking out of her own madness. She was not giving us, the readers, a clear understanding of what the yellow wallpaper means to her. Furthermore, I think she was living in a dystopian life because she had bars on her windows, she was forbidden to do take care of her child, do motherly and household duties, and forbidden from writing. When reading this story in a metaphoric lense, the narrator, probably, wanted to be set free from all the rules that were being imposed on her by her husband, John, however, I am still unsure about this.
Both “The Cottagette and “The Yellow Wallpaper” are written in the first person narrative, and I noticed the style of narration right away in “the Cottagette” on the first page (47). “We discussed and examined and exclaimed [. . .] she needn’t have been so careful, there wasn’t a speck of dust”. The words “We” and “I” are good indications of this, besides the fact that the story is told from her perspective and that we have insight into her personal thoughts and emotions as shown also on page 47. “I liked music very well, and kept my thoughts to myself, both high and low, but, “The Cottagette” I loved unreservedly. ”
” The Yellow Wallpaper” was also a first person narration as told through her thoughts and perceptions. On page 57 we get a clear voice from her. “I sometimes fancy that in my condition if I had less opposition and more society and stimulus [. . .] I confess it always makes me feel bad”.
Malda seems like a reliable character because of how she describes things around her, and her behavior and thoughts seem to be of a person who is stable.
The narrator in ” The Yellow Wallpaper” seems to be an unreliable character because she is not of sound mind, and that is shown throughout the story as she spirals out of control due to her depression that is she is suffering after having her baby. She fixates on the wallpaper, and then claims to see a woman in the pattern who is trying to get out.
Utopia- an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect.
Dystopia- an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad.
“The Cottagette” seems to be a utopian story from the way that she describes the cottage and everything around her, including her love for Ford Matthews.
“The Yellow Wallpaper” is a dystopian story because of how suffocated and unhappy she seems, and how how closely she is monitored and controlled by her husband.
What would you say to Stephanie’s point that “The Cottagette” becomes dystopic when Malda becomes unable to do the things she loves because of the demands of the kitchen? Kalianne or anyone else is welcome to reply.
I can see where Stephanie sees dystopian aspects to Malda and her giving up the joy she feels when she pratices her artistry. But that would have been her choice. She decides to learn the skills of domestication ( cooking) because she wants Ford to marry her, and she is under the impression that she must give up her freedoms in order to be his wife. She is risking her utopian life in order to be his wife. It’s fortunate for her that he wants her to give up the conventional idea of what a good wife should be and to continue to do what she loves. He states that it’s because of her passion for artistry that he came to love her so.
I agree with Stephanie that “The Cottagette” becomes dystopic when Malda becomes unable to do the things she loves. In the beginning of the story, I read a lot of happy words about the cottagette. “I was delighted with it. More than delighted.” “Never did I know the real joy and peace of living.” “The Cottagette I loved unreservedly.” “I never was so happy anywhere in my life.”
When Lois convinced her to give Matthews a home and she started to cook more, she started to find faults in the Cottagette. This can be seen when they decided to put a kitchen in the Cottagette. “The very beauty of the place is that it never had any house-keeping about it.”
She showed that the Cottagette became undesirable when it interfered with her artistry. “I always work best in the morning; but of course housework has to be done in the morning too; and it is astonishing how much work there is in the littlest kitchen.”
She did not like how she couldn’t go out as much anymore. “We couldn’t go off so freely on excursions as we used either; when meals are to be prepared someone has to be there.”
She didn’t enjoy people coming to the Cottagette because it meant more work for her to do. “There were others of course, plenty of them dropping in, but I didn’t encourage it much, it made so much more work.”
SO, I definitely believe that when she started cooking, it became dystopic.
For both these stories, I believe we see a first person narrator. The difference between the two however is the “reliability” between the two.
The definition of a reliable narrator from what I learned is pretty much a narrator who takes over as the voice of the story with a more credible and understandable viewpoint of the story. I would say the reliable narrator between the two stories is in The Cottagette because there was a more clearer viewpoint in which we as readers can image understand.
An unreliable narrator is the opposite. In other words, an unreliable narrator is a narrator who gives a somewhat vague explanation of the story and isn’t someone who we should depend on that much thus having us think more. This narrator can be found in the Yellow Wallpaper because emotions took over and affected the effectiveness of the narration.
A Utopia is a world of perfection where everything suits the ideal image of an individual or society. “The Cottagette” seems to fit this because it’s more peaceful and based on the narrator, there isn’t really anything bad going on.
A Dystopia is the opposite and is more hectic and negative. Based on the narrator for “The Yellow Wallpaper”, we can all say that the world in the story is a Dystopia. Emotions are all over the place and there is a sense of uneasiness.
Can someone comment about what specifically contributes to the sense we have that “The Yellow Wall-Paper” is a dystopia? Are there particular passages we can analyze to draw this conclusion?
I actually think The Yellow Wall-Paper is the exact opposite of The Cottagette. The Yellow Wall-Paper started off a dystopia and then switching off to utopia whereas The Cottagette started off as a utopia and finishing off with dystopia.
In the beginning of The Yellow Wall-Paper, she complains to John about the Wallpaper and how she wished for another room instead. When the character was forced to stay in the room she hated it and saw comfort that her baby didn’t have to endure it. “There’s one comfort, the baby is well and happy, and does not have to occupy this nursery with the horrid wall-paper.”
At first, she wanted to leave the place, away from the yellow wallpaper. ” I wish John would take me away from here!”
As she watched the wallpaper more and more, it seem to switch to utopia. She seemed to want to stay in the room more and more to watch the figures she saw. “I watch it always.”
Eventually, she wanted the wallpaper and the figures all to herself. “I am determined that nobody shall find it out but myself!” “Life is very much more exciting now than it used to be.”
She doesn’t seem to want to leave the place because she is afraid that John would take her away from the room if John found out about it. “I had no intention of telling him it was BECAUSE of the wallpaper-he would make fun of me. He might even want to take me away.” “I don’t want to go out, and I don’t want to have anybody come in, till John comes.”
In Charlotte Perkins Gilman’s both stories, “The Cottagette” and “The Yellow Wall-Paper,” the point-of-view is first person narrator as we can see the use of “I.” However, the narrator in “The Cottagette” is more reliable whereas the narrator in “The Yellow Wall-Paper” is unreliable because John’s wife (the narrator) has depression and she has limited ability to tell the story accurately.
Utopian fiction tells the story about an ideal society and “The Cottagette” is one of the utopian fictions. As the narrator talks about the cottagette at the beginning of the story, she describes her positive impression and feeling by saying “I was delighted with it. More than delighted.”(third paragraph) Also her love for Ford Mathews and happy ending of the story shows that this story is utopian. However, in “The Yellow Wall-Paper,” the narrator is restrained by her husband and the husband doesn’t even care when the wife says she doesn’t like the yellow wall-paper. Even though they moved to the old mansion to cure her depression, the husband doesn’t care her enough and her depression gets gradually worse. This story is dystopian where the narrator feels depressed and the description of the setting is negative throughout the story.
Let’s think more about John’s care for his wife in “The Yellow Wall-Paper.” Would someone comment further about the kind of care he provides, and how she feels about it? If we deem her an unreliable narrator, do we distrust everything she narrates about John’s care? Someone could comment on this issue here, using specific passages from the story.
Despite the unreliable narrator, we can see that John and the wife moved to the house because John, as a doctor, believed that her depression will get better if she takes some rest in the house. That was the only reason that they moved to the house for months. That shows John really loves his wife and wants to provide her good environment and care for her sickness. But I think the way how he treats her is wrong. For example, in page 64, when the wife woke up in the middle of night, John was really sad that his wife kept thinking she is not getting better. It would be frustrating John as a doctor cannot treat his own wife’s illness. But it would be more frustrating for the wife to be in the horrible house when she doesn’t feel like she is getting better. John says “… you really are better, dear, whether you can see it or not. I am a doctor, dear, and I know…. She shall be as sick as she pleases! But now let’s improve the shining hours by going to sleep, and talk about it in the morning!” I think John doesn’t really care about her feeling and he just cares about what is normal to normal people. He is basically telling her that she needs to sleep because it’s late at night and people sleep at night even though she is feeling uncomfortable and depressed
In the two short stories, “The Cottagette” and “The Yellow Wallpaper,” the narration is in first person point of view. On page 47, the third paragraph from “The Cottagette,” the narrator says, “I was delighted with it.” On page 57, the first paragraph from “The Yellow Wallpaper,” the narrators says, “It is very seldom that mere ordinary people like John and myself secure ancestral halls for the summer.” In both of these lines, it clearly represents the thoughts of a character, who also is the narrator. In “The Cottagette,” the narrator can be thought of as a reliable narrator. She tells the story in a way that is easy for the reader to develop a clear understanding of what she’s telling them. On the other hand, in “The Yellow Wallpaper,” the narrator is unreliable. She doesn’t provide a clear story for the reader. She was obsessed with the wallpaper, which drives her insane. She believed to have seen a woman trying to escape in the wallpaper, and realized that she must be like that woman. Utopian is a term used to represent a community or society possessing perfect qualities. Dystopian is a term used to represent an unpleasant society. “The Cottagette” can be labeled as a utopian story, for the narrator describes the cottage with great pride. “The Yellow Wallpaper” can be labeled as a dystopian story. The narrator is highly unpleasant. She was ill, her husband her husband limited her freedom, and she drove herself insane from the wallpaper.
What about the wallpaper drove her insane, and how do we know? Would she consider herself insane? Since she is the narrator, how do we understand anything differently than she does? Someone could comment in response to these issues raised in response to Imran’s comment.
As the narrator notices a figure in the wallpaper, she realizes that it looks like a woman who is trapped behind bars. She sees the figure as it’s shaking the bars at night and creeping around during the day. When she feels that John and Jennie know about her obsession with the wallpaper, she tears is off the wall at night. This is how she becomes insane. She was overly obsessed with the wallpaper because of what she believed she saw in it. I don’t think she would consider herself to be insane. From her point of view and imagination, she truly believes there is a woman like figure in the wallpaper who is trying to escape, but we see it in a different perspective. We know that the wallpaper can’t actually have a moving figure in it. The narrator sees the figure shaking the bars at night and creeping around during the day. We can assume that her imagination is causing her to see these images in her head.
When she first went to the house she wasn’t considered insane yet. She slowly starts to become insane by staying in the house looking at the yellow wallpaper. I looked at the yellow wallpaper as a representation of how she becomes insane. As she staying in the house longer with the windows all have bars in it like it was a prison cell and the outside of the house was enclosed by a wall and gate, she just stays in the room doing nothing but looking at the wallpaper that annoys her. So when she started seeing a woman like figure in the wallpaper, i saw it as her mind starting to break down and start becoming insane by just doing nothing and staying in the room. When she teared the wallpaper that i saw as the point in where her mind snaps and she has become insane .
The story entitled, “The Cottagette” is told using first person narration. This evident in the third paragraph of the story on page 47 when the narrator said, “I was delighted with it.” The narrator is Malda, who is the central character in the story. In my opinion, Malda is a reliable narrator. This is because she gives vivid details about the setting of the story and her relationship with the other characters. She also speaks of the other characters with respect. She even spoke of Mrs. Fowler, Lois’s mother with respect even though she stated, “I wasn’t very fond of Lois’s mother.”
Utopia refers to a place of ideal perfection. The cottagette can be described as a utopia. This is evident in the way the narrator described the setting of the story. The remoteness of the dwelling, the smell of fresh unpainted wood, the mountainous area, the grassy meadow with beautiful flowers and the cleanliness of the cottagette. Being courted and falling in love with Mr. Matthew adds to the utopian characteristics of the story.
The story entitled, “The Yellow Wallpaper,” is told using first person narration. This is evident early in the story on page 57 when the narrator stated, “I would say a haunted house…,” further along in the story the narrator said. “you see he does not believe I am sick.” The narrator can be described as unreliable. This is because as the story progressed the author gives the impression that this narrator, who is also the main character in the story is experiencing mental illness described in the story as nervousness. Because of this her credibility has been seriously compromised. It appears the narrator is struggling with depression. Because of her delicate state of mind she is taken to the country for fresh air, rest and relaxation. Her baby is left at home to be taken care of by someone else. The mansion that is rented for their three months stay is described by the narrator as haunted. The narrator becomes obsessed with the yellow wallpaper. She stated she hated the yellow wallpaper but seems fascinated by it. The medication she is taking for her condition seems to be affecting her thoughts. She appears to delusional at times. As the story progressed she became paranoid and began to mistrust her husband John and her sister-in-law.
Unlike the story entitled, The Cottagette this story can be described as a dystopia. Dystopia is used to describe a place where things are as bad as they can be. The narrator described the mansion as being lonely and haunted and she especially hated the wallpaper in their bedroom. On page 57 she stated, “I wish John would take me away from here.” Things signifies her unhappiness. This is in contrast to the happy feelings experienced by Malda in the utopian atmosphere of the “The Cottagette.”
We should think about how a dystopia is different than a sad story, and how a utopia is different than a story with a happy ending. What systems are in place to ensure happiness in “The Cottagette” or a disillusioned, impossible state in “The Yellow Wall-Paper”? Anyone who has yet to comment might address this in one or both of the stories, making specific reference to the text or texts.
A utopia is a community that has systems in place to ensure that everyone there is living in very high standards. A dystopia is the opposite, its a place where everything is unpleasant and bad. “The Cotagette” is a village where people go to do art in a serene environment. All systems are in place for the people to not have a care in the world. Everyone there spends their time playing music and working on their crafts. Set on a mountaintop in the woods, this is definitely an ideal setting for a utopia.
In “The Yellow Wallpaper”, although the husband does not see it, the narrator is living in a dystopia. She is sick (depressed) and no one believes her. Under doctors orders she is to rest and is forbidden to work. She is unable to care for her child, visit her cousins, or even write. That gives her a whole lot of time with her thoughts in a room she despises. Most of all she hates the wallpaper, and when she mentions it, her husband finds it amusing. yet when morning comes, he leaves to work, while she is stuck in the room with her thoughts and the terrible wallpaper. No friends, and no one to speak to who will actually listen, no child to care for, and not even being able to write, this very much describes a dystopia.
Utopia and dystopia, describe the setting, not a persons personal feelings of happiness or sadness.
In the happiness in Cottagette is when she described the cottage alone with the life style she had growing up. Also the way she felt about Mr. Matthew.
The two stories “The Cottagette”and “The Yellow Wallpaper” we’re written in first person narration. One the first (page it was very obvious by the usage of her words. (Paragraph 2)”I was delighted with it ” (Paragraph 4) “We discussed and examined and exclaimed, Lois holding her longer skirts close about her she needn’t having being so careful, there wasn’t a speck of dust, and presently decided to take it”.
“The Yellow Wallpaper” was also first person narration on the first page 57 she states what she believes in what she disagrees with and a great usage of “I”. The narrator seems to be an unreliable unlike “The Cottagette which was reliable. She was obsessed with this wallpaper and believes theirs a women trying to get out.
“The Cottagette “turns out to be a Utopian from the detail you get describing the cottages and the setting. When it came to describing her love for Mr.Matthew was clear. Utopian is more like perfect setting, love story, happiness and wealth.
“The Yellow Wallpaper ” is Dystopia a little more Negative unhappy setting with is very clear with the sadness and depression over this wall paper.
“The Yellow Wallpaper,” is indeed a dystopia for the narrator. Dystopia means a place where things are as bad as could be. The narrator in her depressed state started to see the wall paper in other areas of the house. This is indicated on page 66, “I find it hovering in the dining- room, skulking in the parlor, hiding in the hall, lying in wait for me on the stairs.” I can imagine how crazy it must have been for her having her mind possessed with the images of that awful yellow wallpaper. Keeping her in that setting can only result in a worsening of her depression and this is exactly what happened when she tore the wallpaper from the wall in a mad rage.
The Cottagette is pure Utopia and love between Malda and Mr. Mathew. Their relationship only grew stronger as the story develops. As stated on page 47, paragraph 10, there was one hug room and two little ones in the tiny thing, though from the outside you wouldn’t believe it, it looked so small; but small as it was it harbored a miracle- a real bathroom with water piped from the mountain springs. Our windows opened into the green shadiness, the soft brownness, the bird-inhabited quiet flower-starred woods. The view was magnificent and Malda truly enjoy that; but with the presence of Mr. Mathew everything seems so perfect and strong and her creativity becomes endless in her art work. To add Malda mention on page 51, paragraph 4, the beauty of the place is that it never had any house-keeping about it. Lois and Malda loves the place it was tranquil, and everyone wanted to be around for Malda meals whether supper or lunch, boarders were always around; so in my mind the Cottagette was the place to be or the hot spot for a good meal.
I agree that the setting was a utopia based on the beautiful description of the cottagette and it’s surroundings. However, in real life this could be a short term utopia because many people would eventually find this to be boring. The fact that she was interested in Mr. Mathew made everything else seem perfect. In my opinion one could easily get tired of the cottagette and it’s location. It was in the middle of nowhere, the place was very small, the odor from food cooking in the kitchen must have taken over the entire place and grass was every where including all the way up to the walls.