Read: José Olivarez, “Maybe I Could Save Myself by Writing” and “Mexican American Disambiguation” (2018)
Annotate: Think about Olivarez’s texts. What are some interesting CHOICES he makes in his writing? Who do you think he is writing FOR (who is his intended audience)?
Watch (In-Class): 2019 LAF student video on Olivarez. Share any response you have to the student comments. Can you relate to something a fellow City Tech student articulated?
Here is Olivarez reading his poem “Mexican American Disambiguation”
Post: Choose a favorite line or section from Olivarez’ poem or essay. Explain what you found interesting about this section or quote. Try not to repeat what a student before you has commented on.
“I attended public schools in a working-class south suburb of Chicago called Calumet City, where teachers taught via the banking model of education: We were empty bank accounts, and it was our teachers’ responsibility to deposit facts.”
This quote from his poem stood out to me because its a metaphor that I never heard before. He is completely right when he says that the students are empty bank accounts and the teachers are depositing facts into them. I agree with this because we go into class or start a new class that we’ve never taken before and ew don’t know what we’re going to learn, so as we learn our brains are inserting all the new information that it didn’t know it was going to intake. Like when we go to our banks how accounts don’t know how much money we’re depositing in until we deposit it.
Excellent response and discussion of this metaphor, Kiara. Just for clarification, the quote is from his essay not his poem.
“I was living in the wrong country. I didn’t make sense in the united states, but if I moved to Mexico, I would make sense, ….but when they asked me where I was from and I tried to tell them I was Mexican, they were quick to correct me. No, No, No. You are from the united states.”
It’s a terrible feeling! Everyone has belonging needs. Humans are social creatures that crave interaction with others. Humans have the need to give and receive love; to feel like they belong in a group or a country. Jose Olivares essay gives an overview about immigrant issues. Writing this essay may be a result of acculturative stress, the loss of social support, and displacement.
The United States has long served as a refuge for people who seek to escape hunger, poverty, torture. The decision to migrate to another country is not an easy one for most immigrants. People leave behind family members, and often risk their lives to cross borders in order to live a life of freedom and opportunity.
Immigrants must face intolerance and suspicion, while navigating the complexities of assimilating to a language and a culture foreign to their own. If the person enters the country without proper documents, they live in constant fear of being detained and deported. Undocumented immigrants may have to accept jobs far below their skill level and endure a lot of discrimination.
Excellent choice of quote and discussion Samia. Perhaps your second formal essay can be on the topic of immigration. Stay tuned…
“In my mentorship relationships, I hope to dismantle the hierarchies that place me as the expert because I’m the oldest among us. When we sit in workshop together, we are all students. We are all trying to learn and grow.”
From my life experience, you can always learn something new, from the collective group you are surrounded by, no matter the age, gender, creed, and etc. This section in Olivarez’ essay stood out to me. Especially with his determination to maintain a connection to the youth, and capture the true emotions of adolescent life, within his writing. The exchange of opinions and ideas through a diverse collective, can possibly help a person grow in many ways, and expand their perception. The opinions of the young people he mentored seemed to hold a significant influence with his writing, since these are the people he would like to inspire, and also inspire him.
Excellent quote selection and wonderfully insightful discussion Cassandra.
”My mom was white in México & my dad was mestizo & after they crossed the border they became diverse. & minorities. & ethnic. & exotic. but my parents call themselves Mexicanos, who, again, should not be confused for Mexicanos living in México. those Mexicanos might call my family gringos, which is the word my family calls white folks & white folks call my parents interracial.” I took this section out of Olivarez’ poem because it just made sense in terms of labels. I’m not Mexican so I can’t be labeled as a Mexican or a Chicano but I can relate to being called diverse and a minority. Whenever I’ve been faced with these terms, they never phase me but thinking about it from an actual immigrant’s perspective, it can feel embarrassing. Most immigrants already have to face the language barrier and having to adjust and live in a new environment, so hearing these terms can be confusing especially because now it’s like trying to find your new identity that fits with these terms. One day, you’re a Mexican living in Mexico and then the next you’re “diverse, minorities, ethnic , & exotic” living in America. Your label changes depending on your situation; where you’re born, where you live, etc. Its just amusing to me reading this section because I’ve seen from first hand experience, Hispanics call other Hispanics gringos which just doesn’t make sense making it funny.
Excellent choice for quoting. Your discussion of “labels” and “labeling” is very insightful as well, Alex.
“We were empty bank accounts and it was our teacher’s responsibility to deposit facts”. I found this quote interesting in many ways. Reading the quote, brings up literally the business aspect of it and shows the emptiness of a newly opened account. The quote also reminds me how my father always projects education as an investment that one makes and the efforts are the deals to succeed. Looking back at the early years of school, students were mostly relied upon their teachers to acquire new knowledge. Sometimes students may even spend more time with teachers than their parents. The quote shows the magnitude task of educators also the dangerousness of a poor quality of education that can bankrupt the student. Even educators do not receive enough credit for their efforts, they will remain the bridge between knowledge and learners.
I like how you complicate the metaphor of “banking” as it pertains to education. Olivarez uses it negatively but I like your line that “The quote also reminds me how my father always projects education as an investment that one makes and the efforts are the deals to succeed. “
“my parents were
undocumented when they came to this country
& by undocumented, i mean sin papeles, &
by sin papeles, i mean royally fucked which
should not be confused with the American Dream”
This quote was interesting to me because often times people believe that undocumented immigrants come to America for an easier life style when the whole process is actually very difficult. Sin papeles , meaning without any papers it’s way harder to do things like get a job, find a proper place to stay and many other obstacles that makes it hard to live in America. I have friends and family who still wait til this day for their papers after waiting years and can’t do things simple things like traveling anywhere outside the US. Things like filing for any type of aid also becomes difficult and simply society makes it difficult as they ridicule undocumented immigrants everyday.
Ha, you really picked the best of Olivarez’ lines here, Ashiley! Your discussion of the quote is also intriguing.
“When I was 16, my parents let me spend a month with my grandparents in Cañadas. My plan was to never come back. However, I arrived in México and felt just as out of place as I felt anywhere else. The kids on my grandparents’ block pronounced my name like my parents did, but when they asked me where I was from and I tried to tell them I was Mexican, they were quick to correct me. No, no, no. You’re from the United States.”
As soon as I read these few lines of the text, I got such a heavy flashback of my life experience. When I was 14 my parents did the same thing and it was an absolutely identical situation. Maybe if I have never gotten this experience I wouldn’t believe that you can feel out of place after returning to your homeplace, but this quote just made me trust every word of José Olivarez in his essay.
It sounds like you have some good material you can connect with for your next formal essay.
“Writing shifted my relationship to education and power. After I started writing, I stopped being interested in models of education that didn’t consider me an active participant. In class, I got in trouble for the first time. Some teachers complained that I talked too much. Other teachers reveled in my growth. It made school harder. When I passively accepted everything I was taught as fact, school was easy for me.”
This quote was very interesting for me because it spoke of acceptance, and he spoke of how once he started writing all other subjects were of no interest to him, so he is showing us his passion of how much he loves to write. As well some teachers celebrated his growth and some teachers didn’t it made school harder he said but once he accepted everything school was easy for him. I believe this tells us that in times of difficulty when the facts are thrown straight at you sometimes you must accept them and the times ahead will become easier. As well once you find what you are truly passionate about and really want to do then nothing will matter except that what you wish to do. An example my brother and his friends are in the stock market he day trades all day but he studies and learns about it because that is what he is truly passionate about. Never before have I seen him study and put so much work into something but he found his passion may it be good or bad at the moment you find it’s like the only things that matter, and that’s the only thing you wanna learn all those other subjects don’t interest you unless it has something to do with you passion. As well you must accept the fact with every passion there is haters and supporters and you must accept that. I love this quote cause it shows how much he loves writing and how he accepts the fact as he is maturing some teachers will hate and some teachers will support him and this will make life harder but the best thing for me to do now to make it easier is to accept it. I believe these are two valuable lessons.
Excellent choice of quote and discussion, Nadav. I like your concluding line but try to break up your overly-long (run-on) sentences into shorter ones.
I love this quote BEcause it shows how much he loves writing AS A TOOL THAT CAN HELP HIM DEVELOP INTELLECTUALLY AND EMTIONALLY. HE accepts the fact as he is maturing, some teachers will hate and some teachers will support him[.] TEACHERS WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THERE FOR HIM, SO the best thing for HIM to do now IS to TAKE CONTROL OF HIS OWN EDUCATION. I believe these are two valuable lessons.
“We were empty bank accounts and it was our teachers’ responsibility to deposit facts.”
After reading through Jose Olivarez essay, this was the one quote that stuck with me, all the way to the end of the reading. I found it crafty and it really made me think about how true those words are. She compares the state of learning to an empty bank account. If we break it down further we are essentially that empty bank account. If we do not add money into the account there is no chance for the account to grow. We can now apply that same concept as a student. If we are not supplied with the money, in our case the knowledge from our teachers, how would we ever grow? The chances for advancement intellectually would be very slim.
Excellent discussion, Sarafina. I like your phrase “I found it crafty ” That’s such a good term to use when we think about careful (i.e. crafty) writing. Crafty also has a useful second definition: sly and sneaky — which is also relevant to a writer’s work. Nicely done.
However, I arrived in MĂ©xico and felt just as out of place as I felt anywhere else. The kids on my grandparents’ block pronounced my name like my parents did, but when they asked me where I was from and I tried to tell them I was Mexican, they were quick to correct me. No, no, no. You’re from the United States.”
I really like this paragraph as it relates a lot to me. I have only been in the USA for four years. So when I went on vacation in Albania this year, everything looked different. People looked at me as if I was a stranger. Some looked at me with contempt and some others as a billionaire as if I had found the money on the sidewalk and just collected it. In short, they thought that everything is much easier in the USA. One of the occasions I felt like a stranger in my own country was that of secret glances made by my cousins and even my uncles.
Sometimes when I was asked what life was like in the US, I answered in the right way, pointing out the difficulties and advantages that the foreign state (USA) had given me. But they took my answer as arrogance. So my vacation seemed scary to some extent, as I had already become a stranger in my own country.
Sounds ridiculous, but some people started calling me nicknames like Dajana Trump (haha). It seems ridiculous but at the same time painful for me. The situation had reached its peak when one of my cousins told me that you are a traitor because you left Albania to go to a richer country.
Finally, this is why I really liked this paragraph. seems to have a lot in common with me .
Excellent choice and discussion of quote Dajana. Your return to Albania would make for a fascinating scene in your upcoming formal essay.
“I’m telling you this because I wrote a book of poems with one foot in the past, one hand in the present, and a nose on the future. Because I want to be honest about how much I don’t know. Because, maybe, you too want to write your own book, but are worried that you don’t remember well enough.”
JosĂ© Olivarez’s essay is characterized by the depth of his feelings and learning. In this quote, Olivarez tries to reflect what he felt in his childhood, and as teenager. Olivarez emphasizes that he cannot remember every detail of what happened, only his experiences and feelings. The feelings he had when he went to Mexico to visit his grandparents or when he became a mentor to Victoria, Luis and Ken. I like this quote for the simplicity of his words when describing the past, present and future. “I wanted to write poems in a way that might give a young person in similar circumstances some comfort. I hoped my poems would be used to write new poems and to launch a million more stories. ” This essay is aimed at young people who sympathize with his feelings, mostly as teenager. Because at this stage of life a person is developing and maturing their thoughts to become the person who will be in the future.
Cristina, you chose a subtle and well-written quote here and you yourself write smartly and subtly about it. Well – done.
Stephanie Torres:
I have to say in the world I love all Jose Olivares’s poem not only because it talks about the stereotypes towards Mexicans but how society views spandex in general. One of my favorite sections in the plan was the ending stanza where he says,
“ I called a sociology, but that’s just the Chicano in me, who should not be confused with the diversity in me or the Mexicano in me who is constantly fighting with the of weirdly mobile in me who is good friends with the Mexican American in me, Who is the colleges love, but only on brochures, who the government call”
Jose emphasizes how Americans view him as a Mexicano but also how he views himself. He has steps himself as a Mexican just as much as he has except himself as an American. He states how he is constantly fighting against society for trying to portray him as someone who is not but but he loves being Mexican American. I believe this part of the poem is amazing because it shows how much love he has for his country and for who he is. Not only that but I really a lot because I am Colombian and I was born there and there is a lot of criticism against Hispanics and that is one of the things that we have to live with every day.
Great selection of a quote and wonderful analysis of it. I really like your insightful point: “Jose emphasizes how Americans view him as a Mexicano but also how he views himself”
Christos Klitsinikos
My favorite poem that really touched my interest is “We were empty bank accounts and it was our teachers’ responsibility to deposit facts. Jose Olivarez is a great new era poet and he really addresses how famous poets are not discussed by todays era and the reason for that is simply because it is not taught in the education system that often from teachers, especially I would say based on my experience that I’ve been taught famously known poems once or twice in my life, once in my high school year and once in my college year. It’s not into any’s interest to know poems and famous poets, it’s a shame because of the fact that poetry is a way to communicate and spread a message or a meaning to whomever is reading the poem and that poem could give you so much knowledge and so much insight to a subject. It is a shame and waste of time my thoughts on the poem I choose are agreeable and disagreeable meaning that yes we do need somebody to fill our minds with knowledge and facts but it is the persons responsibility to also take action and learn things by himself, by his own way.
Learning is a matter of time, you could learn now or later but never when its to late.
* For some reason I thought I submitted this post already, but I couldn’t find it here so I’m posting it again*
My favorite Line in “Maybe I Could Save Myself In Writing” by Jose Olivarez is “If it weren’t for gravity, I might have floated away.” This is the exact moment he discovered his love for poetry “I felt something bloom within me” Jose started to write after he heard his classmate perform their poem. Not only did Jose enjoy poetry he had a message within his work. Jose wanted to write poems that confronted the questions he felt as a teen, writing gave him comfort and his words made him feel at home.
I love how Jose Olivares’s states this in his poem, I’m sure many americanized people can relate to this feeling of just not fitting in anywhere, and not being able to relate to people with similar backgrounds as you.
“my parents are Mexican who are not
to be confused with Mexican-Americans
or Chicanos. i am a Chicano from Chicago
which means i am a Mexican-American
with a fancy college degree & a few tattoos.”
I relate to this because I’m an Italian/irish American, I don’t know much about my culture due to my family being very americanized. I don’t fit in with other Italians because I can’t relate to them. I’m also half Irish but I don’t know much of my family and the ones I do know are American. I’m not in touch with my culture and that affects how I interact with other people from the same background. People don’t see me as the same because I don’t know how to really “be an Italian” or “be Irish”.