This Group Assignment is in two parts. Before beginning it, please read Professor Rodgers’ introduction to “Understanding Sentences in Standard Written English (SWE)”:
Part I: After reading this introduction, what specific questions do you have about sentences in Standard Written English (SWE) that you would like to have answered? Please post three questions about some specific aspect of the SWE sentence. For instance, “what is a run-on?” “What is the difference between a period and a comma?” “What is wrong with this sentence: ‘The is dog cat eating the.’” “If it is possible to start a SWE sentence with the word ‘Because,’ why did my high school English teacher tell me NEVER to do that?” “What is a sentence fragment, and how can I revise these in my writing?” Be creative! Ask anything and everything you’ve ever wanted to know about SWE sentences, and their functions/malfunctions. Please post your questions to our Open Lab course site.
Part II: Please read through all of your own and your classmates’ questions posted to GA8. Locate the answer to ONE of your own questions and TWO of your classmates’ questions by looking up the answer to these questions on the Purdue OWL or in your English handbook. Post a brief synopsis of the “answer,” along with a link to the Purdue OWL site or a reference to the page number of your handbook where you located this information.
Question 1: From the reading “ What Is Writing: A Brief Introduction to Writing as an Act of Communication
DRAFT” , I read a sentence that gave a definition of SWE. “A sentence in Standard Written English (SWE) is an independent clause that may, or may not, relate to one or more dependent clauses. “ So if a sentence starts off with a question, then the next sentence talks about the definition while relating to the first sentence, would that still be consider a SWE?
Question 2: So does an independent clause usually goes before the dependent clause. Dependent clause usually provides information while an independent clause comprise a phrase ( like verb, subject, object,…)
Question 3: I read the title…, so I guess we are reading a “DRAFT” from 2015?
To answer my own question ( question 3), I guess the reading is a draft since that what it says in the title…
Sheldon,
Thanks for these excellent questions. To respond to your first one, I must point out that what you read and are asking about was not a definition of Standard Written English (SWE). Instead, it was one definition of a complete sentence in SWE. SWE is a dialect of English with its own usage guidelines. This week, we are thinking about how to define and understand complete sentences according to the guidelines of SWE and to recognize complete sentences in what we have written. By basing our definition of a complete sentence in SWE as “an independent clause that may, or may not, relate to one or more dependent clauses,” these clauses and their relations then become the building blocks of complete sentences in SWE. A simple sentence is one independent clause. A compound sentence is one independent clause connected to another independent clause with a coordinating conjunction. A complex sentence is one independent clause that is in relation to at least one dependent clause.
Simple sentences are made up of a subject phrase, a verb phrase, and an object phrase. Here is one example: My meeting on Thursday was very informative.
In this simple sentence, the subject phrase is “my meeting on Thursday”; the verb phrase is “was”; and the object phrase is “very informative.” If you were to ask a question about my meeting on Thursday, you would write, “Was your meeting on Thursday informative?” This is also a simple sentence. However, the syntax, or order in which the subject, verb, and object phrases are placed is different. The order is now verb phrase, subject phrase, object phrase.
In terms of your second question, a dependent clause can either precede or follow an independent clause. If it precedes an independent clause, a comma separates the dependent and independent clauses. If a dependent clause follows an independent clause, it is most often separated from the independent clause by both a comma and a relative pronoun.
All of the rules that you were taught in school, i.e., “never start a sentence with And or But,” were intended to prevent you from writing incomplete sentences. In college, we now have a chance to understand why those rules exist. Here is Professor Trimmer’s discussion of “The Elements of a Complete Sentence” that you might find very useful: http://college.cengage.com/english/trimmer/writing/14e/students/hgu/hand2.pdf
Thanks
1. I have a tendency to write complex-compound sentences, but sometimes I get confused and end up separating them into two sentences. What resource should I use to work on writing clear complex-compound sentences?
2. Why is it that so many people struggle with SWE punctuation? Is there enough of an emphasis placed on that in school?
3. Do you agree with lower grade English teachers telling students to NEVER do certain things, like start sentences with “Because”, even though these things may be alright within the rules of SWE?
Answer to Question 1 :
I think the Tip Sheet : Comma Usage could be very helpful for writing complex-compound sentences.
Kyle,
These are all excellent and insightful questions. Regarding your first question, the answer is (as the answer usually is): through more practice with all of the stages of writing and revision. Everything you write in your drafts is worthwhile and important. Much of what you have written will be made up of complete sentences of all varieties (simple, compound, complex, complex-compound). The rest can be edited. What we are practicing this week is 1/ how to recognize a complete and incomplete sentence and 2/some ways to repair incomplete sentences. Although I find that that best way to repair an incomplete sentence is usually to rewrite it rather than attempting to repair it, I included re-writing as one method of repair. Just to recap what has turned out to be a more complicated response than I expected, do not worry about writing clear complex, compound sentences. Worry about what recognizing the non-sentences that you have written and editing them so they are sentences.
Regarding two, this is a fascinating question that I don’t have a short answer to. However, from my research, I know that writing instructors in both college and high school tend to take it for granted that “we all know what a sentence is.” I know that grammar school teachers now incorporate the teaching of simple, compound, and complex sentences into their curriculum, but when I was in grade school, this was not taught. Was it taught to you? Also, I believe SWE punctuation should be taught in a much more simplified form than it usually is. The vast majority of punctuation marks have only one function, i.e., to end a sentence. Thus, periods, question marks, and exclamation points have only one function. Commas have several functions, but only the first four are used with any regularity. Semicolons have two functions: 1/ to separate two simple sentences and 2/ to separate items in list that (for some reason) cannot be separated by commas. All of this is just to say that my recommendation for helping younger students master SWE punctuation would be to allow them first only the use of periods, question marks, and exclamation points in their writing and then, over time, allow them to use commas, but only for specific functions.
Finally, did you locate a comma usage tip sheet that will work for you? If so, you may want to share it with others.
Dear Kyle,
I know many students, including myself, who have issues with SWE punctuation and that is because it is a bit hard to master. It is something that we continuously have to revise to make sure our sentences are correct. I don’t think that this is emphasized at school because teachers only teach the basics. Honestly, I never heard of independent clauses, dependent clauses, and the type of sentences until my senior year in high school.
Answer of question 3.
I agree with lower grade English teachers that never start sentences with”because”because if you don’t state the reason, nobody gonna understands what are you saying.
I don’t agree with lower grade English teachers that students should never start sentences with “because”. You can use it to introduce a reason before giving the topic. For example:
Because it’s getting colder outside, sales on ice cream have gone down.
Answer to your 3rd question: I don’t agree with lower grade English teacher because as long as the independent clause been mantion after the dependent clause I don’t think it really matters.
1. According to the reading What Is Writing: A Brief Introduction to Writing as an Act Communication DRAFT” , “Sentences could go on forever”. Why in lower grades teachers would always make students correct sentences beause they were too long ? although according to SWE stardards a sentence can go as long as you want it to.
2. What are some good practices to get better at proofreading to spot run on sentenes ?
3. I still struggle a bit with grammar. How can I get better at creating correct complex sentences ?
Answer to Q1. Maybe because in order for a sentence to go forever you need to have nearly perfect grammar and make sure is not a run-on.
Ojanny,
In response to your first question, I have to imagine that the teachers were correcting and repairing non-sentences, not long sentences. I always think it is useful to remember that a “run-on sentence” is NOT a long sentence, it is a collection of words that are NOT A COMPLETE SENTENCE according to SWE guidelines. This is all just to say that your answer to your own question is EXACTLY the right one.
2. Practice.
3. We all struggle with SWE prescriptive grammar because of the sheer number of rules related to it and the complexity of language use generally. In response to your specific question, please see my response to Kyle’s question above.
2. I think if we do more practices on fixing the the comma splice with a coordinating conjunction such as “and,” “but,” “for,” “yet,” “nor,” “so,” and “or” will be alot easier
Answer of question 2.
You can use more conjunction words, and you can go look it up when you should put period and comma.
1) What makes college writing different from other types of writing?
2) Do independent and dependent clauses only refer to college writing, or all types of writing?
3)Are definite and indefinite clauses the same as dependent and independent clauses?
part 2: answer to 3: definite/indefinite clauses and dependent/independent clauses are used in the same context, so they must refer to the same thing.
Thanks for these excellent questions. Just to clarify: dependent and independent clauses may sometimes be referred to as indefinite and definite clauses, but, generally speaking, it is best not to refer to them as such since it will just confuse matters. Further, I must apologize if, in my handout, you encountered this error in terminology. Independent clauses are complete sentences in SWE; dependent clauses are not complete sentences unless they are put in relation to an independent clause. Further, there are different types of dependent clauses, for instance, relative clauses and correlative clauses. I would recommend reviewing the usage guidelines for relative clauses first.
Dear Mohamed,
Independent clauses as well as dependent clauses aren’t only used for college writing. I believe that we are taught the basics in elementary/middle school, and as we go to high school and college we then go into depths with sentence structures. Independent and dependent clauses should be things that we should use in all sentences for any type of writing as it helps the readers understand what we are trying to say.
Questions:
1. After reading “Understanding Sentences in Standard Written English” I am still a bit confused on commas. I am aware not to “over-use” them, but how will I know when I used too much even though sentences can be “pages” long?
2. I have a problem with using semi-colons in my sentences due to what I was taught in high school, so when and how do I properly use a semicolon?
Answer to #2: According to Purdue Owl, you use semi-colons when you want to “join two independent clauses. Joining two independent clauses this way implies that the two clauses are related and/or equal, or perhaps that one restates the other” and when you put “items in a list that already involve commas.”
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/engagement/2/1/44/
2. I think semi-colons is to link independent subject that are similar in thought.
Use a semicolon when you link two independent clauses with no connecting words. For example:
I am going home; I intend to stay there.
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/04/
Tyra,
I like how you have phrased your first question, since it so clearly explains the issue all of us have with comma usage. Just as there are specific rules for the use of periods, there are also specific rules for the use of commas. I believe there may actually be about eighteen rules for comma usage in SWE. However, only three or four of these rules apply to most writing situations. Do you know what those three or four rules are?
Questions:
1. Is there any tips to improve verb issues and endings? (because in chinese, we don’t have all those tense.)
2.What is a sentence fragment? Can i have few example for it?
Answer to #2: Fragments are incomplete sentences. Usually, fragments are pieces of sentences that have become disconnected from the main clause. One of the easiest ways to correct them is to remove the period between the fragment and the main clause. Other kinds of punctuation may be needed for the newly combined sentence.
Alex,
These are great questions that your answer addresses directly. Could you please list the source for the information that you have posted and shared about fragments? I know we would all like to know what it is. Thanks!
1. The difference between a comma and a period like where to use it I feel like I use commas more then periods when I write
2. I often feel like I have run on sentences
3. How can I not tangle my sentences ?
Answer #1
According to Purdue OWL I should only use commas to separate independent clauses when they are joined by any of these seven coordinating conjunctions: and, but, for, or, nor, so, yet. And use commas after introductory a) clauses, b) phrases, or c) words that come before the main clause.
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/
Thanks!
1. How many commas are considered over-used?
2. If it is possible to start a SWE sentence with the word ‘Because,’ why did my high school English teacher tell me NEVER to do that?
3. How can a sentence be infinite?
4. What are the rules of semi-colon and colon?
5. What are the rules of an apostrophe when talking about possession?
According to the Purdue OWL,
add ‘s to the singular form of the word (even if it ends in -s)
add ‘s to the plural forms that do not end in -s
add ‘ to the end of plural nouns that end in -s
add ‘s to the end of compound words
add ‘s to the last noun to show joint possession of an object
Thanks, Samuel! Did you also look up the rules for semicolon and colon use?
Part I
Question 1: When should I put a period?
Question 2: Can we use “then” in our paragraphs more than 4 times?
Question 3: What is the difference of “have been” “had been” and “has been”?
Part II
The answer to question 1: Use a period at the end of a complete sentence that is a statement.
Have is used with plural nouns and pronouns. Ex: They/You/I have been…
Had is used as the past tense of have and has. Ex: They/You/She/He had been…
Has is used when you’re talking about third person singular nouns. Ex: She/He/It has been…
1. How do you know when to use a hyphen?
2. What’s the difference between a complex sentence and a compound sentence?
3. How do you know your sentence is a run on sentence?
Answer to question 2: A compound sentence is made up of two independent clauses connected by a coordinating conjunction. A complex sentence is made up of an independent clause with one or more dependent clauses connected to it.
Thanks, Anika! Regarding your question about hyphens, my answer would be to always look up a phrase in a dictionary to ascertain whether or not it is hyphenated. Hyphens are, as you know, one of he marks of punctuation that are truly exclusive to written communication, which means that it will be hard just to know which ones are hyphenated and which ones are not hyphenated since we do not clearly mark that distinction in oral communication.
Answer to you 3rd question: Run on sentence contains two independent clauses that are not connected by a coordinate conjunction or separate by a semicolon.
1. How do you know when to use a hyphen?
2. What’s the difference between a complex sentence and a compound sentence?
3. How do you know your sentence is a run on sentence?
Answer to question 2: A compound sentence is made up of two independent clauses connected by a coordinating conjunction. A complex sentence is made up of an independent clause with one or more dependent clauses connected to it.
For question 2, A compound sentence is two independent clauses that are joined with a coordinating conjunction and a complex sentence has independent and dependent clauses.
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/573/02/
For Question One: Hyphens’ main purpose is to glue words together. They notify the reader that two or more elements in a sentence are linked. Although there are rules and customs governing hyphens, there are also situations when writers must decide whether to add them for clarity.
The website where I got it from
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/576/01/
1. Why is a sentence that could go on for pages not be considered a “run-on”?
2. Can a comma separate too independent clauses?
3. When writing sentences, why starting with certain words are not considered sentences under SWE? Words such as And, or But.
4. How can one sentence have two or more independent clauses and one or more more dependent clause(s)?
Answer to 2: A comma cannot separate two independent clauses; only a period or semicolon can do that. The period or semicolon works as a red light, indicating full stop. The comma indicate as a yellow light or a turn signal.
To answer your second question, yes a comma can separate two independent clauses only if its separated by a coordinating conjunction after the comma. The second independent clause will then become a dependent clause.
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/598/01/
For question 2, A compound sentence is two independent clauses that are joined with a coordinating conjunction and a complex sentence has independent and dependent clauses.
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/573/02/
Questions:
1. A habit I tend to do when presenting an opinion or opposing argument is that I use “I feel” . Is this incorrect or not a proper way to present an argument or interject my own opinion? If there is another word phrasing I would like to know.
2. How complex can a complex sentence get before it sounds like a run-on sentence. One example provided in the article “Because they love me, dogs and cats are the animals I most love.” If I could shorten this am I able too or leave as is? Of course, there is the fundamental difference between a complex sentence and run-on and this same sentence can be written in many different ways. But is is better to have a concise sentence for an audience for class purposes?
3. I have a habit in which when I write out a sentence that, when I go over it, it flows perfectly . However, when presented to others, there is a bit of a disconnect and the other individual interprets the sentence differently and sees flaws in the writing. Aside from proofreading and allowing someone else going over your work is there another way to break this habit?
Answer to 3: This of course is all perspective. If i have a sentence open to interpretation, any reader can perceive it however they want to. There are, however, obvious things that both the writer and reader can see. Glaring issues like grammar and sentence structure have to be proper and legible.
1)What are comma splices?
2)Are conjunctions always used in compound sentences?
3)Can a sentence have more than one subject and verb agreement?
To answer my first question comma splices are when two independent clauses are joined with a comma with no conjunctions. Comma splices are run on sentences
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/engagement/2/1/34/
For Question 1: Comma splices are similar to run-on sentences because they also incorrectly connect independent clauses. A comma splice occurs when two independent clauses are connected with only a comma. As with a run-on sentence, there are a few different ways to correct a comma splice. Consider the following sentence and the revised versions that follow it.
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/engagement/2/1/34/
With what I read about “Understanding sentences in standard English written” I came to the conclusion that I still do not understand the concept of commas, when to use them and when not. If they can be used after an “and”.
The fragments are sentences that are not fully developed, disconnected from a general clause.
1.What are the rules of semi-colon and colon?
2.What is the different from college writing and other writing when it the same english writing?
3.When should I put a period?
The answer to question 3: A period should use at the end of a complete sentence.
1)What is Faulty Parallelism?
2)What are Fused Sentences?
3)What is Syntax?
4)What do we use semicolons for?
Answer to 4: We use Semicolons to end a complete sentence and to add on to that sentence to make the “sentence” even better
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?
I really with punctuation issue . I always do the punctuation like I do when I’m writing in French but I found out that they differ . In my writing I only use period and comma.
I have just 2 questions
Q1: Is there a possibility to have comma between 2 sentences?
Q2: can we replace a period by a semicolon between 2 sentences?